Everything with this faction is so friggen expenisve...

This whole thread is full of alliebabies rants and to prove it:

I think it got an armor nerf because poor poor OKW.

Wow.

Guys, the point of the whole forums is to disagree and it being about the game balance situation and not your personal delusions and emotions of the game.

As for the OP title, costs only mean timing (since resources come alone with time) and strategical desitions, if usf units are expensive it means they are to be waited for. But once fielded and given the right care thay do very well. In lategame situations its better to have many expensive units fielded rather than cheaper on demand squads

Cost for TECHING is about timing. Cost for units is to represent performance.

Cost for TECHING is about timing. Cost for units is to represent performance.

In both cases its true, but there is a little of timing on both.

Teching cost affects timings, its the most notable example, as they open the tech tree to new units they limit availability of such units. But the first appearance of a unit is determined by its cost, that is a more subtle timing though. The fuel cost of tanks is a good example of timing too.

With regards to performance we could agree if we both mean of same faction units, also cost limit/ease the player strategy with said faction. Now if we talk of cost of units between opposite factions, we might disagree on some points.

1.Cheaper is worse fallacy: I hear a lot that "cons are bad because they are cheap", relatively speaking they are cheaper than other squads, true, but it doesnt mean they have to be bad. A counter-example is MG42, its cheap and top tier of MGs, the reason its because OST design encourages the player to use such an efficient unit. On the case of SU cons, its cost limit/enhance the unit spammability in this case.
The opposite is quite true too, a more expensive unit does not mean it has to overperform. Sure its frustrating to save a lot of time and resources to dump into a unit that cant get a single thing done, but the cost is telling the player to consider more seriously if he/she should invest the resources or to give away that combat. Sometimes you can get a bigger gun but its not the smartest or the best way to win.
To summarize, i think a unit performance is determined by the faction design, the current metagame and game timings

2.Cost justifies units toolkit: If a unit has more abilities or more powerful vets, its cost adjusts to include them, i would say that costs includes more aspects than average players normally take account, even the never used abilities.
The possible combinations within the faction and with other allied factions are taken account, that plus the unit intended role end up affecting its costs. This way units can be layed out as cost-effective units/core units/premium units. Keep in mind i am not comparing units between factions yet. A premium unit is one in a faction that shouldn't have such tool. Imagine mobile mortars on UKF, they are a premium since they are doctrinal. I dont remember its costs now but you get the idea.

3.Cost efficient combat: This might me the hardest to agree of all. If a unit is able to deal cost efficient damage that is an intended role too, the cost efficient part is the consequence, not the cause. Imagine ostruppen fighting off IS. Of course IS are better overall infantry but if we suppose the case of cover to cover combat, ostruppen might hold the line same as grens, but with less manpower investment. Mortars are cost efficient vs garrisons, tank destroyers are cost efficient versus same tier tanks. All intended roles, based on the premise there is a risk involved that the enemy could change plans or never field the intended units. There is a complex relationship between proactive gameplay and reactive gameplay, one gives birth to cost efficient units and the other to counterable units. Both points of view aim at the same mechanic. With the ostruppen example, they dont counter IS in any way but they do offer map control in early game, which is more a proactive tactic than a reactive one.
All of this determines a unit risk/reward factor and it then sets its ideal unit cost.

With the unit cost fully elaborated, there is one last point about timings. All factions timings are loosely tied together, because all factions use the same resources for simplicity and all of them come from time passing by. Of course one could capture fuel/muni points to earn some/more but that only promotes map control and strategic thinking. Munition cost limit abilities uses and fuel costs are the second, more exclusive resource income. All resources are infinite, as long as the game continues and VPs do not end.
In the end the best cost efficient units or the safest generalists are always fielded, one depletes the enemy resource pit and the other solidifies a VP. Units cost and build time limit how often they can be replaced and veterancy focuses on units preservation instead of throwing them off like a C&C game.
But it all started and ends as timings stacked up as resources.

I ran a test in cheat commands and a penal could kill a rilfeman squad in a 1v1 engagement almost every time even if they had a bar, not sure about the inf section but without the Bar the rilfes still got whacked. Seems pretty pathetic that for 20 mp more you can get an immensely more effective squad or in the UKF's case the same amount. Everyone always talks about giving all your rifle men Bars is the reason why they are expensive, but take any other unit in the game and apply the same logic. Should grens price be increased because they can get MG42 or G43? How about the infantry section, that outclasses the riflemen in almost every category. Should they cost more because of Bren guns?

I ran a test in cheat commands and a penal could kill a rilfeman squad in a 1v1 engagement almost every time even if they had a bar, not sure about the inf section but without the Bar the rilfes still got whacked. Seems pretty pathetic that for 20 mp more you can get an immensely more effective squad or in the UKF's case the same amount. Everyone always talks about giving all your rifle men Bars is the reason why they are expensive, but take any other unit in the game and apply the same logic. Should grens price be increased because they can get MG42 or G43? How about the infantry section, that outclasses the riflemen in almost every category. Should they cost more because of Bren guns?

But you play against axis not allies. You could argue about how they scale against volks or grens.

But you play against axis not allies. You could argue about how they scale against volks or grens.

They are crap against Volksgrens to the point where Volks grens are a hard counter to Riflemen. Grens are easier to beat until they get the MG42 upgrade then Riflemen are lucky to break even.

Because Riflemen preform so poorly it ends up weakening the entire USF faction since there is no viable build order without them so you forced to rely on this underperforming and overly expensive unit.

They are crap against Volksgrens to the point where Volks grens are a hard counter to Riflemen. Grens are easier to beat until they get the MG42 upgrade then Riflemen are lucky to break even.

Because Riflemen preform so poorly it ends up weakening the entire USF faction since there is no viable build order without them so you forced to rely on this underperforming and overly expensive unit.

There are these shield things that pop up when you put your infantry behind objects in game, put the guys behind the green ones for best results.

They are crap against Volksgrens to the point where Volks grens are a hard counter to Riflemen. Grens are easier to beat until they get the MG42 upgrade then Riflemen are lucky to break even.

Because Riflemen preform so poorly it ends up weakening the entire USF faction since there is no viable build order without them so you forced to rely on this underperforming and overly expensive unit.

u are still spouting bullshit with no stats or invent them ?

Like the armor nerf on the WC 51 ?

volks lose to rifle at mid and close range and are equal at long range

rilfe have much better vet too

u are still spouting bullshit with no stats or invent them ?

Like the armor nerf on the WC 51 ?

volks lose to rifle at mid and close range and are equal at long range

rilfe have much better vet too

Mid and Late game rifles are fine so long as they have vet and are pimped out with BARs.

It's the early game land grab where a rifleman sqauad and a RearEch go up against a Sturmpio and Volk squad where things can so often go sour.

They are crap against Volksgrens to the point where Volks grens are a hard counter to Riflemen.

Do you have any evidence for this claim?

Do you have any evidence for this claim?

no as always he doesn't show stats or replay u gotta trust his superior opinion

Usf get grenades and smoke for the start.
Ostheer cries man, he really do.

Usf get medic truck right off the bat.
Okw cries cause they have to retreat.

Usf get grenades and smoke for the start.
Ostheer cries man, he really do.

Usf get medic truck right off the bat.
Okw cries cause they have to retreat.

Grenades require tech costs so, not really from "the start".
Ostheer must be a cry-baby.

Ambulance is low priority on the build order, usually not built until 5 - 6 other units have been built.
OKW gets Medic crates that any infantry unit can use anywhere on the map.
OKW must be a cry-baby.

L2P all factions!

This entire thread lol.

Buff riflemen moar! /s

Buff riflemen moar! /s

>more

I'm pretty sure Riflemen have received nothing but nerfs since USF came out. Smoke, veterancy, rifle company flamethrowers...

Rifles have a timing vet2 and 3 with double bars, however volks can still keep vetting and they will start winning and bleeding rifles a lot at vet4 maybe not so relevant in 1v1 but is in 2v2. Where it seems rifles start wiping due to late game units, but wiping a vet 4 volk is a miracle with out a direct priest round, basically usf just bleeds the fek out and okw volks cheaper to begin with get even better at not bleeding.

The start of the game is against USF rifles as well when they arguably have the weakest late game, so it use to make sense when rifles where the best starting infantry unit to make up for their poor late game. Not the case you can have a mid game usf push but often forced into stuart because of luchs. At gun dosent do it too slow to react too slow to keep up with luchs around the map.

So your forces with your slow start to try to make up for it midgame to lead into a worse position to longer the game goes. WTB a werfer or stuka so i can delete all enemy vet support teams or squads, wait i have to buy the pak howie, oh wait its hard countered and deleted.

USF OP

Rifles have a timing vet2 and 3 with double bars, however volks can still keep vetting and they will start winning and bleeding rifles a lot at vet4 maybe not so relevant in 1v1 but is in 2v2. Where it seems rifles start wiping due to late game units, but wiping a vet 4 volk is a miracle with out a direct priest round, basically usf just bleeds the fek out and okw volks cheaper to begin with get even better at not bleeding.

The start of the game is against USF rifles as well when they arguably have the weakest late game, so it use to make sense when rifles where the best starting infantry unit to make up for their poor late game. Not the case you can have a mid game usf push but often forced into stuart because of luchs. At gun dosent do it too slow to react too slow to keep up with luchs around the map.

So your forces with your slow start to try to make up for it midgame to lead into a worse position to longer the game goes. WTB a werfer or stuka so i can delete all enemy vet support teams or squads, wait i have to buy the pak howie, oh wait its hard countered and deleted.

So how exactly does vet 4 let Volks outdps Riflemen?

So how exactly does vet 4 let Volks outdps Riflemen?

Dont they just out survive them, usually comes down to VP battles, volks can put up with a lot of abuse from late game units, arty, rifles cant, they start having less and less time on the field, volks more. Its not like rifles drastically out dps them, they can stand there and ignore rifles for quite some time. They can still anyway just throw flame nade, make rifles move volks win.