Command p4

Continue to move the goalposts from mob, to developers never wanted to do it, to ok they wanted to but backrolled it so actually it ISNT OP. you will say anything to persuade people that what is being said isnt true for your own motives. you don't care about game balance.

then explain me this
Fixed and issue where the Soviet M4C Sherman got both Radio Net and Capture ability at veterancy one. Now only has capture ability.
i reported about it (and unlike most fan boy think it's ok for the Sherman to have it) but the dev obv meant it's op right ? must be removed ?

Keep it on the command p4 or the thread will end up locked.

then explain me this
Fixed and issue where the Soviet M4C Sherman got both Radio Net and Capture ability at veterancy one. Now only has capture ability.
i reported about it (and unlike most fan boy think it's ok for the Sherman to have it) but the dev obv meant it's op right ? must be removed ?

yes stug, if it was in the patch notes it should have been done. it was clearly tested and decided that changes should be made but it didnt happen in production, it should have. does that make you feel better now? you feel like you can actually discuss the topic at hand instead of bringing up everything else like m4c sherman and jackson? you finally agree that cpz4 should have had the changes happen to it that relic deemed should. progress!

yes stug, if it was in the patch notes it should have been done. it was clearly tested and decided that changes should be made but it didnt happen in production, it should have. does that make you feel better now? you feel like you can actually discuss the topic at hand instead of bringing up everything else like m4c sherman and jackson? you finally agree that cpz4 should have had the changes happen to it that relic deemed should. progress!

I reported it, and they did nothing so i think u are the one who is wrong, like the y did 3 months ago for the c p4

From my perspective the the -20% to -10% nerf is just inneffective, so there is little reason to debate whether or not it should go through. However suggesting it was "because of the mob" is a joke, that means any change in the changelog can be put up to the same scrutiny, and that would be absurd

Reworking the the aura into an ability or two and making the main gun actually worth something seems like it should be a much more attractive option

Would make a lot more sense and be equally effective in any game size that way. Could even perhaps make the unit more attractive in 1v1 while making it less of a pain in 4v4.

maybe even lock it behind tech but actually being a good ai option and not a worse ostwind, if the ability does become a timed one it should affect itself too

Would make a lot more sense and be equally effective in any game size that way. Could even perhaps make the unit more attractive in 1v1 while making it less of a pain in 4v4.

Yup this is exactly what im hoping for. My idea is far from the only way you could do this, but this the goal

...
Reworking the the aura into an ability or two and making the main gun actually worth something seems like it should be a much more attractive option

I dont agree on neither. Pz4 tank chassis are not fast enough to promote too much skills and its stubby gun has to be bad otherwise the babysitter will become the babycarrier

Would make a lot more sense and be equally effective in any game size that way. Could even perhaps make the unit more attractive in 1v1 while making it less of a pain in 4v4.

Even though i agree with you, that is going to remove diversity from teamgames. Like cutting a tables leg.
If it only affects vehicles, shreckblobs wouldnt benefit from CPz4 stacking on top of their new vet1

I dont agree on neither. Pz4 tank chassis are not fast enough to promote too much skills and its stubby gun has to be bad otherwise the babysitter will become the babycarrier

The entire point is that it shouldnt be as much of a babysitter as it is due to the fact that you get so much more out of it in team games just by sitting it behind even more units. Its also less attractive in 1v1 because its a bigger risk when filling your popcap is the end of any more units fighting for your team

Buff the main gun, give it a few command abilities that effect single units, and now you have something that can actually contribute no matter what game-type you're playing

The entire point is that it shouldnt be as much of a babysitter as it is due to the fact that you get so much more out of it in team games just by sitting it behind even more units. Its also less attractive in 1v1 because its a bigger risk when filling your popcap is the end of any more units fighting for your team

Buff the main gun, give it a few command abilities that effect single units, and now you have something that can actually contribute no matter what game-type you're playing

Its a COMMANDER Panzer 4, you know? It means its not for the fighting but for the logistics.

I always wanted it to be a puma. Better mobility, more fragile, good enough gun. Rommel style

Its a COMMANDER Panzer 4, you know? It means its not for the fighting but for the logistics.

I always wanted it to be a puma. Better mobility, more fragile, good enough gun. Rommel style

Command panther and tiger are useless in a fight are they? Comissar is good in a fight, new artillery officer is pretty good too, the sturm officer and command p4 are the only ones that suck. It's because their auras are so strong that the unit itself is punished for it. They probably did that for balance but in the cmd p4s case it just makes its value very inconsistent. Super strong in teams, not really in 1v1

The brit command vehicle gets some serious combat penalties, but you can also choose the tank so there's gotta be am extra trade-off

In this case, i suggest we give it a vet buff on vet 1, the aura extends from 80 to 85. When i used cmd tank, i recall it takes years to vet up. We could decrease its gun damage a little.

Meanwhile, we push its CP further back to 12.

Hear me out, as Wehr player and even Okw, late team games favor allies much more. Allies critical mass for cheaper resources, tons of arty and 60 TD. This cmd tank actually will help balance the tide for late game purposes.

Remember 1 cmd tank on field, you lose a better P4, a nice trade-off for late game usage. For example, instead of 2 SU85 aiming at 2 P4, you get 2 SU85 aiming at 1 P4. The cmd tank dont participate well in battle.

To suggest nerf is just not sensible. We just need to shift its timing for its purposes. Choosing it, you are already losing offense for defense. Cant believe there is problem getting 1 extra shot when you will suffer 1 less shot yourself...

A doctrinal answer to a no doc problem is NEVER the way. Allied TDs need toning down, and the CP is not the answer.
Furthermore 10% more health or 20% makes no difference in the number of TDshots to kill anything but a panther and above. It's main effect is on infantry which is a fine fine balance.
Furthermore passive auras a just bad business as a passive (all of them) look at Soviet FHQ, turned from a passive aure to a timed ability and I would argue the game has never been better in relation to that ability.
All command units should be the same
Targeted and timed abilities that scale with vet and yknow what? Give them shared vet too! Command units should RAISE the skill cap, not lower it.

...command p4 are the only ones that suck. It's because their auras are so strong that the unit itself is punished for it. They probably did that for balance but in the cmd p4s case it just makes its value very inconsistent. Super strong in teams, not really in 1v1
...

Such opinion, much disagree, not a single fact. Wow.

Yeah we all know CPz4 is not meant to be used solo, at least against other tanks, thats why it has a stubby gun (actually a low velocity shell cannon and it doesnt have HE munition, wich it should).
But its true, it sucks against all tanks, therefore it sucks overall... (Logic over9000)

...Command panther and tiger are useless in a fight are they?...

Of course! Those are fully operational tanks, payed full price *and more, their performance must be different of their *identical, non commander counterparts, just because the simple fact a Commander Pz4 Ausf D tank has a main role of logistics rather tank fight.

--- Edited>Added
To the rest of people reading this post.
IMO the aura potential a feature and a dead weight, simply because it can easily sinegyse with other tanks, even OKW ones. All units have a lower ceiling of HP because if a CPz4 appears that situation must be contained (and it is btw).

IMO this aura is balanced when compared to stock allied tank offensive abilities, from selfspotting, moving acc, alpha damage.
-To remove this and all auras, those mentioned aspects should get a proper review.
-To add abilities, unless someone takes the topic seriously, there are not much options to adjust the unit role in 1v1 and teamgames altogether. Simply because 4v4s are fuckfest doesnt mean the ablity has to be nerfed.
-To adjust the aura into other effects, if they are offensive, that will promote a-move blobbing (since blobs are used to attack, rather than hold and defend) and that is drastically opposite of the people here appeal
-To make the aura an toggle/active ability will increase user input and can be a viable solution if the player is distracted or unprepared. If a tank gets hit before the aura is active, it effectively will be destroyed in the same amount of shots

Snip

Then we simply disagree, goodbye

Edit: And he changes his mind again. No surprise