So are they really nerfing the Churchill Tank?

You're again wrong.
That's a description of massively overpowered unit, not a hardcounter.

The only units in existence that matches your description are flying units vs melee units.

so the paper is overpowerd, because it countert the stone and will be beaten by the scissor..which is beaten by the stone......right??

so the paper is overpowerd, because it countert the stone and will be beaten by the scissor..which is beaten by the stone......right??

Is Tiger hardcounter to conscripts?

thats why this TDs are only good counters/ or softcounter.../ counters.
Not HARDCOUNTERS. (once more: hardcounters means it will beat the unit in every situation and no lose possible: like a stone will ALWAYS lose to a paper.EVERYTIME. no lose possbile to the paper.)

Do you mean there are no hardcounters in this game? Because the only thing that for infantry is literally impossible to destroy are tanks. Which would mean that a Firefly hardcounters basically all infantry.
If you go for a 'on paper 100% win chance' I can understand the definition, but find it unsuitable for CoH due to the rng nature of the game. A T34 could frontally kill an Elefant in a duel, so there is no 100% win chance. On paper a P4 will win against a Sherman, but they're obviously not hard coubters.
So you could define a threshhold with maybe 90% win chance, but that would bring n subjectivity that you want to get rid of with your definition.
That's why I would go for intended roles which can be then subcharacterized by efficiency while always keeping a normal battlefield situation in mind. A Panther is designed to counter tanks and will win in most scenarios, but in certain setups it won't be the most cost efficient one. A Brummbär is intended to hard counter infantry, but maybe an Ostwind would have done the same job. That makes Brummbär still a hard counter, just a maybe less efficient one

Do you mean there are no hardcounters in this game? Because the only thing that for infantry is literally impossible to destroy are tanks.

*Some infantry.
Every infantry with either regular or AT nade can destroy every single vehicle under certain circumstance.
Basically the only inf in the whole game that REALLY can't do anything to vehicles are medics.

Anyway, he did realized how stupid his point was, that's why he stopped responding despite being very active and quick to reply up until now.

By this strange definition, I don't think any hard counters exist in Ullu's perception of CoH2? At least not once you consider fuel.

Kubels/Bren Carriers and snipers, maybe? That's about the only case I can think of. Scout cars cost fuel, so they can't be less investment.

There's no vehicle I can think of that costs less and always wins. There's no AT guns that can't be circle strafed.


See, if we were playing starcraft, that definition would at least make some sense. Units in that game often have basic costs and their combat potential has very little relation to their positioning, or their facing, or cover, or micro, or range. In starcraft, a lot of units are specifically really good against other types of unit and cheaper one can be placed near more expensive ones and, because combat has so little nuance, you know they will win.

This isn't starcraft and that definition just does not work for CoH2 at all

Even IN starcraft it's vague and hard to define.

In CoH2, its hot garbage.

Refine your personal definition, it does not serve its purpose in this setting.

Tigers counters good (non-AT) infantry. You could say they hardcounter them...but it isnt a efficient because of high cost. effective..yes...efficient no.

A hardcounter example in the coh2 world could be:

a ost sniper vs any verhicle with less cost than the sniper.

Ost sniper can kill lights with its vet1, given enough time or vet1 snipers, they'll kill lights, therefore contradicting your very own definition and example.

Ost sniper can kill lights with its vet1, given enough time or vet1 snipers, they'll kill lights, therefore contradicting your very own definition and example.

ok...than take sov sniper

And now you're grasping at straws, digging for exceptions, not rules.
66% of snipers in coh2 have capabilities to destroy lights.

Snipers are literally it. The one hardcounter.

The KV8 has had the 45mm buffed, the ostwind has pen now. The panther has MGs.

Snipers are the one unit expensive enough to have a vehicle that exists at under their price point which they cannot deal damage to. But not the UKF sniper.

Hardcounters Ullu believes exist: 2

Edit: Actually, the very limited number of tank destroyers with no MGs or HE barrages would quality too. My oversight, but that doesn't make this any less absurd.

This is a farcical viewpoint ripped from a different game that just doesn't work for CoH2. Why are you still trying to push it?

Hardcounters Ullu believes exist: 2

Edit: Actually, the very limited number of tank destroyers with no MGs or HE barrages would quality too. My oversight, but that doesn't make this any less absurd.

This is a farcical viewpoint ripped from a different game that just doesn't work for CoH2. Why are you still trying to push it?

Actually, its more then 2 in his mind exclusively if you -ignore completely- the rule he himself set(and also, its actually 1, exclusively one singular sniper, ost sniper vet1 doesn't fall under his own rule):

(once more: hardcounters means it will beat the unit in every situation and no lose possible: like a stone will ALWAYS lose to a paper.EVERYTIME. no lose possbile to the paper.)

TDs without MGs still have a chance to hit infantry, therefore SU-85 is NOT hardcountered by shreck pfussiliers or PGs in his mind.

Actually, by his own definition, churchill crocodile is NOT a hardcounter to mainline infantry, who has fausts or HMGs on incendiary rounds facing it(therefore being able to do damage, therefore there being situations where croc will lose "on paper").

Most counters mentioned so far were tank on tank. Let's account that ostheer has the best AT infantry in the game (schreck PGs)(probably compared to doctrinal AT infantry too, maybe only zook rangers get close).

Snipers are literally it. The one hardcounter.



Hardcounters Ullu believes exist: 2

BS. I didnt say that...if you would think about it 2sec...you would get some other example where the cheaper unit will win everytime vs a expansiver unit.

every mainline infntery will win vs a normal AT Gun crew (expect if the ZIS has a lucky barrage shell).....or normal mortar crews will die anyway in 1 v1 fight...until they setup..they was killed/ mainline unit will come to near to fight back....

or thing about a prist vs a puma or other fast verhicles... or think about a howitzer vs most squads/ verhicles....


in a 1v1 they will die with no chance....so many units in coh witch have exact this paper - stone - scissor prinzip.

What difference does it all make? Just make churchill more expensive to reflect its performance, especially looking at the faction as a whole.

What difference does it all make? Just make churchill more expensive to reflect its performance, especially looking at the faction as a whole.

Have you had some time to test the Churchill yet?
As I said, I thinkt biggest problem of UKF are the IS. Either they're slightly OP overall or too strong early on. They're almost undisplacable when in green cover, maybe their combat potential should be finetuned and some power from early game carried over to the late game

Have you had some time to test the Churchill yet?
As I said, I thinkt biggest problem of UKF are the IS. Either they're slightly OP overall or too strong early on. They're almost undisplacable when in green cover, maybe their combat potential should be finetuned and some power from early game carried over to the late game

Ive started playing them. I'm lvl10 now. Struggle vs okw while ost is piece of cake.

Ive started playing them. I'm lvl10 now. Struggle vs okw while ost is piece of cake.

How are you finding Ost sniper plays so far?

How are you finding Ost sniper plays so far?

Ost Sniper is the best unit in the game. Counters infantry. Counters tanks.
Whenever I see an IS-2 I charge my sniper right at it. Works like a charm. Works also great against the Churchill, especially since it's so slow and the sniper has more range. Perfect hardcounter.

What difference does it all make? Just make churchill more expensive to reflect its performance, especially looking at the faction as a whole.

Or they are such expensive because spamming such a proficient, late game securing, unit is batshit crazy OP.
Performance would be the least of a long list of aspects that defines a unit cost

How are you finding Ost sniper plays so far?

The problem is that I play 1v1 mostly against okw. Seems like ost is rather a rarity in 1v1 unless the player is a real pro. So, not yet encoutered any sniper plays but hioping to ghet matched against and ost player with a sniper. From may experience babysitting ost sniper can be rewarding but is even more risky than building pzgren shreck squad. You just need to have a smoothless game as ost and you win. A few mistakes and your totally doomed. With UK it is totally different. The units are more universal and you can keep boosting them. For example - double gren IS can build cover, call arty srikes, heal for free (itself and units around) and on the move, have acces to two typoes of grenades - just incredible. Just realised heavy sappers for 60 munitions get both quicker repairs and better guns - so cheap. Like I'll gibe you stens and maybe you should repair faster

Back to the chrchill - I haven't manged to build one yet but cromwell is so cool

The grim conlusion is that imho ost is still neglected while okw in 1v1 is just good even against UK. Still nice to come back to UK after a year or more. I still remeber simcity playstyle Now I play as if it was ost on steroids.