like the title states
If penals were immune to suppression, or even just immune from being pinned it would give that 'SUICIDE SQAUD' feel, of course they wouldn't get the damage reduction for being pinned or suppressed, so they would die a lot faster. and if they got close enough to the MG, they could throw their satchel, of course if they were that close they would be losing a model every 0.5 seconds, so you gotta be careful!
what do you guys think, good idea? bad idea? suggestions on how to improve on this?
Suggestion: penals immune to suppression
16 Oct 2013, 01:10 AM
#1
Posts: 531
16 Oct 2013, 01:14 AM
#2
Posts: 103
very good idea, cuz penal is useless right now.
Too old for this shit
16 Oct 2013, 01:21 AM
#3
Posts: 783 | Subs: 3
It's certainly something to consider.
That idiot thought he won. In fact, he was wrong. Completely mistaken.No M3 he what things are not，just one moron.
The German oil scarcity, rare tanks cannot fight the Allied torrent. Kill the house to kill the German oil.
Every time lose may feel bad. Probably not the word lose your subconscious. Maybe I win you Not for the first time Maybe you you should go to recall,
The German oil scarcity, rare tanks cannot fight the Allied torrent. Kill the house to kill the German oil.
Every time lose may feel bad. Probably not the word lose your subconscious. Maybe I win you Not for the first time Maybe you you should go to recall,
16 Oct 2013, 01:26 AM
#4
1 
Posts: 1006
it cannot be totally immune to suppression but pinned yes could be good.
16 Oct 2013, 02:09 AM
#5
Posts: 308
Perhaps, but this will be easily abused they will crawl their way and throw a satchel. Maybe instead just make them 300 manpower and not the same price as panzergrenaiders and keep them how they are.
16 Oct 2013, 02:14 AM
#6
Posts: 525
i disagree. they are fine as they are. i think they just need a price reduction. and maybe a cheaper reinforcement cost. like 330mp and 25 to reinforce.
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16 Oct 2013, 02:33 AM
#7
Posts: 308
i disagree. they are fine as they are. i think they just need a price reduction. and maybe a cheaper reinforcement cost. like 330mp and 25 to reinforce.
That actually sounds better than 300 mp considering they can beat pgrens at range.
16 Oct 2013, 03:10 AM
#8
Posts: 401
Nah, I don't think any sort of immunity, or resistance to suppression is a good idea.
CoH1 had plenty of problems with this, and that was when MGs were a lot more powerful.
It's already enough that Conscripts can Oorah into molotov range before being suppressed then pinned. Now having a unit that can assist even more with that would be too much in the normal Soviet build.
CoH1 had plenty of problems with this, and that was when MGs were a lot more powerful.
It's already enough that Conscripts can Oorah into molotov range before being suppressed then pinned. Now having a unit that can assist even more with that would be too much in the normal Soviet build.
16 Oct 2013, 05:08 AM
#9
Posts: 525
That actually sounds better than 300 mp considering they can beat pgrens at range.
Do you actually think that a decent Ostheer player will be so stupid to just leave their Panzer Grenadiers to fight at range??...PGrens will always charge the Penals position,if you have a good tactic to somehow make the PGRens stay at range,please share it,otherwise not working dude,make them 300 MP,even then I would think twice investing in them instead of Conscripts,Guards or Shocks...
16 Oct 2013, 08:29 AM
#10
4 
Posts: 813 | Subs: 1
Although an interesting suggestion, and perhaps inline with history. But I would rather see other ways of making them more useful. A simple way would be the suggested cost-decreases to somehere around 300. Making it easier to go cap since builtime will go down as well.
16 Oct 2013, 08:39 AM
#11
Posts: 2561
I just generally don't like this idea. Infantry in the mg arc should be pinned, penals are no exception. They need a buff, but not this way.
16 Oct 2013, 09:04 AM
#12
Posts: 337
I would still not use Penals even if they costed only 300. They would still drain more MP from you than a LMG or G43 gren squad over the long run since the Grens get a 1 time Munitions upgrade that doesn't affect their reinforcement cost.
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16 Oct 2013, 10:28 AM
#13
Posts: 829
I don't see how it would help anybody if Penals are immune to being pinned but die faster. It would only mean that MG42 would get vet3 when its facing some noob in a jiffy
16 Oct 2013, 10:40 AM
#14
Posts: 89
Yeah why not. But I would much sooner see an Anti tank upgrade to penals but yea, making them immune to supression would actually make them useful.
This way, you could actually run on the edge of a german mg, flank it and not worry about if the RNG will make your squad hit the ground the first burst or the second burst.
This way, you could actually run on the edge of a german mg, flank it and not worry about if the RNG will make your squad hit the ground the first burst or the second burst.
16 Oct 2013, 10:43 AM
#15
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
No.
There's no point in making HMGs weaker than they already are. They have problems controlling units as it is, which leads to people just spamming grens. Grens which just happen to kill penals really good.
There's no point in making HMGs weaker than they already are. They have problems controlling units as it is, which leads to people just spamming grens. Grens which just happen to kill penals really good.
16 Oct 2013, 10:53 AM
#16
Posts: 829
disregard, got side tracked from topic
16 Oct 2013, 10:56 AM
#17
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedWhy? Are Penals supposed to counter MG42s or something?
Actually, the situation is currently the exact opposite.
Penals own the everloving hell out of Grens.
I dont understand how you can say something that is so utterly contradictory to the actual facts of these units stats.
Key: Near / Medium / Far
Penals: 34.674 / 21.816 / 8.952
Grens: 15.1 / 9.608 / 4.116
Thats more than twice the DPS on Penals that have the same survival coefficient as Grens.
Maybe you can show me a replay in which Grens "kill penals really good"?
I dont understand how someone can claim what you did, with a straight face, as if there was any objective factual basis for it, whatsoever. Blows my mind, completely...
As to Penal improvement: Reduce MP cost and swap Flamer for PTSR upgrade to diversify and enable non-Commander Sov early AT. It would be a "poor man's shrek", on a unit with otherwise good ranged DPS, and doesnt step on Guards, since Guard have 1.5 armor, upgradeable Button, but worse DPS.
No.Grens which just happen to kill penals really good.
Actually, the situation is currently the exact opposite.
Penals own the everloving hell out of Grens.
I dont understand how you can say something that is so utterly contradictory to the actual facts of these units stats.
Key: Near / Medium / Far
Penals: 34.674 / 21.816 / 8.952
Grens: 15.1 / 9.608 / 4.116
Thats more than twice the DPS on Penals that have the same survival coefficient as Grens.
Maybe you can show me a replay in which Grens "kill penals really good"?
I dont understand how someone can claim what you did, with a straight face, as if there was any objective factual basis for it, whatsoever. Blows my mind, completely...
As to Penal improvement: Reduce MP cost and swap Flamer for PTSR upgrade to diversify and enable non-Commander Sov early AT. It would be a "poor man's shrek", on a unit with otherwise good ranged DPS, and doesnt step on Guards, since Guard have 1.5 armor, upgradeable Button, but worse DPS.
16 Oct 2013, 11:11 AM
#18
Posts: 248
I agree with Nullist, I don't understand where people get the idea from that Penals lose to Grens on a 1 on 1. Penals are actually better than Grenadiers and win frequently against them. The problem is their price is just too high. Once Panzer Grenadiers hit the field they're pretty much worthless if you went Penals early game.
On topic:
I think Penals need a price decrease to make them viable. At the moment their manpower cost is just way too high.
On topic:
I think Penals need a price decrease to make them viable. At the moment their manpower cost is just way too high.
16 Oct 2013, 11:17 AM
#19
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
Actually, the situation is currently the exact opposite.
Penals own the everloving hell out of Grens.
I dont understand how you can say something that is so utterly contradictory to the actual facts of these units stats.
Because it's what happens ingame. Something that you wouldn't know about. I'm glad whenever I see a penal battalion because it means there are less conscripts on the field. I mostly build penals when I want to troll people, definitely not when I'm actually trying to win.
It doesn't help that my view of penals ingame is biased by the game situation that building them creates, ie. forcing the soviet player to always be on the attack because they've lost map control they could've had if they only had more conscripts. Walking up to grenadiers that DON'T have an LMG42 results in more manpower losses to penals than to the grenadiers, and with the LMG42 you're fucked no matter what. And not like penals come out markedly faster than the first LMG42 anyway.
16 Oct 2013, 11:28 AM
#20
Posts: 105
I would say decrease cost to 300, with a reinforce cost decrease to 25 menpower per men. Or simply increase their armor to 1,25.
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