Move Airborne Paratroopers to 1 CP

If you give paratrooper m1 carbines a big nerf in addition to locking weapon upgrades behind either cp2, tech or both I would be ok with it. The damage output of their carbines often gets underestimated when in reality it's pretty close to having a 6 man squad all armed with grenadier G43s.

Cut the m1 carbine dps by 20% and 1cp makes sense, otherwise the unit is too strong even without upgrades.


Edit: While their durability isnt comparable to shocks, when upgraded with thompsons their firepower is substantially better at all ranges and their focus fire ability makes them into squad wiping machines in addition to having a lower reinforce cost and innate paratrooper utilities. I would call that fairly equivalent.

If you give paratrooper m1 carbines a big nerf in addition to locking weapon upgrades behind either cp2, tech or both I would be ok with it. The damage output of their carbines often gets underestimated when in reality it's pretty close to having a 6 man squad all armed with grenadier G43s.

Cut the m1 carbine dps by 20% and 1cp makes sense, otherwise the unit is too strong even without upgrades.


Edit: While their durability isnt comparable to shocks, when upgraded with thompsons their firepower is substantially better at all ranges and their focus fire ability makes them into squad wiping machines in addition to having a lower reinforce cost and innate paratrooper utilities. I would call that fairly equivalent.

Locking all upgrades behind weapon racks might help in that regard. And you are right about the carbines, they pretty nasty for sure. It's part of what makes me thing perhaps 2cp might be better than 1. Either are better than 3

Make paras cp1 and nerf them straight to Neverland, voila they are no more elite infantry!

Want durable paras? Because for what I have read that the only thing OP was concerned about.
Then give paras sprint extra RA bonus. Want better performance? Get it by skill not by powercreep

I didnt know paras had worse RA than riflemen

That makes absolutely no sense. That should be addressed first before making any other changes.


Also, I really don't think moving them to CP1 is the right call. Thematically paratroopers aren't.... well paratroopers in this game. You drop them safely on your own territory and use them like front-line infantry like riflemen.

In the first CoH you could drop them in the fog of war, reinforce and upgrade them with recoilless rifles in the field.

The first iteration of the commander had the pathfinder/beacon gimmick that really didn't work out, and it hasn't been touched since they made it "safer" for paras to drop without them. IMO it's just another forgotten commander.

Make paras cp1 and nerf them straight to Neverland, voila they are no more elite infantry!

Want durable paras? Because for what I have read that the only thing OP was concerned about.
Then give paras sprint extra RA bonus. Want better performance? Get it by skill not by powercreep

I want paras to actually be a viable unit to deploy for the sake of this commander being called "Airborne". I detailed why they are not really meta in the OP and then made the argument they are not actually elite infantry since they drop faster than anybody else on the field at CP3 and beyond with their RA at 100% until vet 3.

To that regard Id be totally willing to do all sorts of things to further justify their being deployed earlier in the game, even if it means locking weapons upgrades or possibly minor nerfs to their carbines.

I just want these guys to be more useable, and for the USF meta right now that means they need to come earlier. Buffs (especially to veteramcy or starting RA) could make them more enticing at their current start point, but I still doubt you'll ever produce more than one squad even then.

Anyway, ive kind of realized this idea is too controversial right now. I didnt ask for buffs or major nerfs to paras, just an earlier deployment time, but the thread has somewhat moved on from that.

If CP1 is too much, though, Id love CP2.

I didnt know paras had worse RA than riflemen

That makes absolutely no sense. That should be addressed first before making any other changes.


Also, I really don't think moving them to CP1 is the right call. Thematically paratroopers aren't.... well paratroopers in this game. You drop them safely on your own territory and use them like front-line infantry like riflemen.

In the first CoH you could drop them in the fog of war, reinforce and upgrade them with recoilless rifles in the field.

The first iteration of the commander had the pathfinder/beacon gimmick that really didn't work out, and it hasn't been touched since they made it "safer" for paras to drop without them. IMO it's just another forgotten commander.

You can still deploy paratroopers in the fog of war, and it is occasionally useful, taking an unguarded point or something, just that lines of battle are usually drawn by CP3 and you're probably going to land on a MG42 bunker or something horrible lol.

RA wouldnt be too huge an issue if you didnt have to fight until vet 3 for it to get any better, which means Paras will be very bleedy at the point which they now arrive. Their veterancy is actually exactly the same as Ranger vet, which works for rangers since they spawn with 73% RA or something, but not so much Paras.

I want paras to actually be a viable unit to deploy for the sake of this commander being called "Airborne". I detailed why they are not really meta in the OP and then made the argument they are not actually elite infantry since they drop faster than anybody else on the field at CP3 and beyond with their RA at 100% until vet 3.

To that regard Id be totally willing to do all sorts of things to further justify their being deployed earlier in the game, even if it means locking weapons upgrades or possibly minor nerfs to their carbines.

I just want these guys to be more useable, and for the USF meta right now that means they need to come earlier. Buffs (especially to veteramcy or starting RA) could make them more enticing at their current start point, but I still doubt you'll ever produce more than one squad even then.

Anyway, ive kind of realized this idea is too controversial right now. I didnt ask for buffs or major nerfs to paras, just an earlier deployment time, but the thread has somewhat moved on from that.

If CP1 is too much, though, Id love CP2.

When Relic moved Shock/Guards troops form CP 2 to CP 1 they totally dominated the field, Similar thing happen with other unit. Earlier deployment is a major Buff. Imo units that appear the same time as vanilla mainline infatry should be of the same power level.

When Relic moved Shock/Guards troops form CP 2 to CP 1 they totally dominated the field, Similar thing happen with other unit. Earlier deployment is a major Buff. Imo units that appear the same time as vanilla mainline infatry should be of the same power level.

I realized this concern, which is why I compared them to Penals, Ass Grens, Cav Riflemen and PzGrens. The weapons upgrades make Paras so much more potent as single squads, I felt, could be locked to a later point in the game, while their CP1 and certainly CP2 impact wouldnt be too substantial, particularly given their weaknesses compared to riflemen.

But I think this thread has more or less tuckered out either way.

Paras could receive better RA when they upgrade to thompsons.

Paras are more versatile then riflemen and I can agree with you that they are not a common sight. They are a specific tool and very adaptable, that's what kills them.
If they get a lot of RA bonus coupled with LMG is problematic. If they dont they drop like flies.

To enforce their utility will make them become usable again. Buff its satchel damage. Give them a zook weapon upgrade and give them ra bonus only when they get thompsons

this thread has a dangerous lack of playercards

this thread has a dangerous lack of playercards

Responsibility and good reasoning is not bonded to a stat.

Good ideas and civil discussion have nothing to do with a playercard. Change my mind

Usf players: OMG! Panzergrenadiers arrive 20 seconds earlier now? Broken!
Also usf players: Heya, can I get uuuuuh elite infantry within 2.5mins of the game start?

Solid toxic contribution. Why didn't you just ignore the thread if you weren't gonna read it

this thread has a dangerous lack of playercards

I concur.

Solid toxic contribution. Why didn't you just ignore the thread if you weren't gonna read it

Yeah take your personal attacks elsewhere.

I see the coh elites are out gracing us with the presence.

Oh great leader boards we are but humble servants! Show us who's opinion is trueth! We are but worms! Lay upon us your wrath and ruin for we forgeteth thine COHmandments!
1. RNG shalt doith as it doth please
2. Thou shalt display your player card to giveth some a sense of elitism.
4. Any changes Thou doth not like can be chalked up by fanboyism
5. Failing that Thou may cry "REEEEEEEEE PLAYER CARD!!!!! 1!1!4" to dismiss any discussion that displeased you
6. Your only masterbatory aid may be your own ranking on the holy leader board
7. Axis OP
8. Allies OP
9. Mods OP?
10. derailith discussions with stupid lists nobody cares about.

It is know.

I see the coh elites are out gracing us with the presence.

Oh great leader boards we are but humble servants! Show us who's opinion is trueth! We are but worms! Lay upon us your wrath and ruin for we forgeteth thine COHmandments!
1. RNG shalt doith as it doth please
2. Thou shalt display your player card to giveth some a sense of elitism.
4. Any changes Thou doth not like can be chalked up by fanboyism
5. Failing that Thou may cry "REEEEEEEEE PLAYER CARD!!!!! 1!1!4" to dismiss any discussion that displeased you
6. Your only masterbatory aid may be your own ranking on the holy leader board
7. Axis OP
8. Allies OP
9. Mods OP?
10. derailith discussions with stupid lists nobody cares about.

It is know.

You forgot to sacrifice 6 goats - one for each side of a standard die.

LOL

Ok then here is my playercard:
https://bit.ly/2XPb3Ch

Not to toot my own horn, but has anyone tried the test mod yet? I figured that the best way to see if the idea of early Paras held up would be to actually try it, but there hasn't been any feedback on it.

Not to toot my own horn, but has anyone tried the test mod yet? I figured that the best way to see if the idea of early Paras held up would be to actually try it, but there hasn't been any feedback on it.

I had already changed to cp1 in my own personal mod, but generally speaking playing against AI doesnt really prove much imo.

The squad itself is generally much better AI-wise without upgrades than Riflemen are, albeit even less spammy and without snare, but the issue always comes to the fact youll be able to add thompsons/lmgs to them eventually so their dps shoots up further. AT paras (from weapon rack) are fun and more credible an investment the earlier they are. Vetting up earlier helps all iterations and I generally feel that you can run two squads of paras into your build with the changes without bleeding to death. Its just a question of acceptable balance still, I think.

What were your findings, if any.

Moving Paratroopers to 1 cp in order to allow them to be used earlier in the game and do more aggressive airdrops and other such “Paratrooper things” is a good idea if implemented with the following things to note.

1. Lock Paratrooper weapon upgrades behind weapon racks upgrade. Less crazy Tommy Gun madness early on.

2. Paratroopers cost a lot more than Riflemen to deploy, so they reduce field presence a lot in the early game.

3. Paratroopers lack snares, so they are vulnerable to anti infantry vehicles like 222’s and Panzer II’s and even Pumas.