For the Love Of God M1 Pack Howitzer

Jump back to quoted post3 Jul 2019, 06:18 AMSeductiveCardbordBox

I can't see any middle ground where a 300-400mp howitzer could ever be a good idea. Where the hell is that sweet spot?

Jump back to quoted post3 Jul 2019, 06:18 AMSeductiveCardbordBox

Unless you want to severely buff the Pack Howitzer and add a fuel cost, a half size barrage is going to be awful, one way or another.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jul 2019, 10:28 AMLago

Land Mattress.

Make the barrage make a loud noise when you activate it, make it lengthy and give it a wide barrage radius. The opponent has time to react, but their team weapons are screwed if they stay put.



I think making it 45 FU and balancing it accordingly is a good route to take, personally.

• Auto Attack reload from 7 to 12.
  
• AoE radius from 5 to 8.
  
• AoE Distance Near/Mid/Far from 1.5/3/4.5 to 0.75/1.5/6.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jul 2019, 12:40 PMLago

So I went and tested the barrage out a bit in CheatMod, and it appears the Pack Howitzer suffers the classic CoH 2 explosive design problem. It's really inaccurate, but hits like a truck when it's lucky enough to hit a squad.

Hugely unreliable, but incredibly powerful when it hits.

As a result, it's too much of an RNG cannon to be useful at clearing team weapons, but it's very strong sitting in the back line inflicting bleed and the occasional wipe.

The solution to this is pretty straightforward: damage down, reliability up. You can do that by squashing the AoE profile. It's what they did with the Brummbar.


Something like this, maybe?

• Auto Attack reload from 7 to 12.
  
• AoE radius from 5 to 8.
  
• AoE Distance Near/Mid/Far from 1.5/3/4.5 to 0.75/1.5/6.

This particular AoE profile is probably a bit too powerful (I reckon this'd outright kill any team weapon that tries to tank the barrage) but illustrates the concept fairly well.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jul 2019, 12:44 PMKatitof

That's making it into a mortar.
USF already has a mortar that acts like you want pack howi to.
In T0.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jul 2019, 06:18 AMSeductiveCardbordBox

The problem with trying to make a small field arty piece is twofold.

A - that sort of indirect firepower is normally tied to commanders, which allows a certain amount of expectation and counterplay.

B - Howitzers rely on huge shell AoE and area saturation to do damage. Unless you want to severely buff the Pack Howitzer and add a fuel cost, a half size barrage is going to be awful, one way or another.

If the barrage is free, but as good as a ZiS barrage, it'll be crippling to play against.

If it's free and more or less any worse, it'll be worthless against anything besides an OKW truck, because squads can just move, it'll never vet up, and the shells won't have the AoE and spread to be a general sector threat to stand in like an ML-20 or LeFH.

I can't see any middle ground where a 300-400mp howitzer could ever be a good idea. Where the hell is that sweet spot?

Saying make it a barrage is fine, but how? What would the shell spread be, what would the reload be, how big is each shell AoE?

Jump back to quoted post3 Jul 2019, 12:44 PMKatitof

That's making it into a mortar.
USF already has a mortar that acts like you want pack howi to.
In T0.

Jump back to quoted post5 Jul 2019, 11:21 AMthekingsown10

The scott could do with a few changes but the my main concerns with USF are the pak howitzer and white phosphorous morter ht as they are seriously over performing right now.

Jump back to quoted post5 Jul 2019, 15:48 PMblvckdream

What I just don´t understand about USF design is why the faction that is supposed to be centered around strong mainline infantry (including free officer squads) and LVs also gets to have the best support weapons. Why does the .50 cal, M1 ATG and Pak Howi have to be so damn good? USF basically has better support weapons than Ost now while also having better mainline infantry. And on top of that there is the HE Sherman which is without the doubt the best AI medium tank, Jackson, the only TD without any weaknesses, and basically uncounterable Scotts.


White Phosphorous rounds are a huge PITA too. They should be made more expensive for how hard they are to deal with.

Jump back to quoted post5 Jul 2019, 15:48 PMblvckdream

What I just don´t understand about USF design is why the faction that is supposed to be centered around strong mainline infantry (including free officer squads) and LVs also gets to have the best support weapons. Why does the .50 cal, M1 ATG and Pak Howi have to be so damn good?

Jump back to quoted post5 Jul 2019, 16:52 PMSkysTheLimit

You have to spend a minimum of 70 fuel just to field a .50 cal AND 57mm. Nobody else comes close to that. Ost spends min 60 to unlock pak 40 but they get the 42 in their HQ

Again not saying the pak howy is fine. But if you're confused about the performance of the .50 cal and 57mm, idk why. Timing. It's that simple. It's 90 fuel minimum if you want all 3. So you want all 3 and an LV? Good luck spending that

Jump back to quoted post1 Jul 2019, 16:08 PMthekingsown10

For the love of god please fix the M1 pack howitzer "overperforming" is an understatement the unit as absolutely broken.

Its accuracy is way too high along with a ridiculous AOE and damage profile. 2 M1 paks will squad wipe everything with zero input from the player building it.

Jump back to quoted post5 Jul 2019, 17:57 PMpvtgooner

Not only that but the 57mm has to pay a muni cost for it to even be effective against axis mediums. There are about 4 - 5 users on this forum that truly believe in their core that USF ATG and .50cal is OP.

Jump back to quoted post5 Jul 2019, 15:48 PMblvckdream

What I just don´t understand about USF design is why the faction that is supposed to be centered around strong mainline infantry (including free officer squads) and LVs also gets to have the best support weapons. Why does the .50 cal, M1 ATG and Pak Howi have to be so damn good? USF basically has better support weapons than Ost now while also having better mainline infantry. And on top of that there is the HE Sherman which is without the doubt the best AI medium tank, Jackson, the only TD without any weaknesses, and basically uncounterable Scotts.


White Phosphorous rounds are a huge PITA too. They should be made more expensive for how hard they are to deal with.

Jump back to quoted post5 Jul 2019, 17:57 PMpvtgooner

Not only that but the 57mm has to pay a muni cost for it to even be effective against axis mediums. There are about 4 - 5 users on this forum that truly believe in their core that USF ATG and .50cal is OP.

Jump back to quoted post5 Jul 2019, 15:48 PMblvckdream

What I just don´t understand about USF design is why the faction that is supposed to be centered around strong mainline infantry (including free officer squads) and LVs also gets to have the best support weapons. Why does the .50 cal, M1 ATG and Pak Howi have to be so damn good? USF basically has better support weapons than Ost now while also having better mainline infantry. And on top of that there is the HE Sherman which is without the doubt the best AI medium tank, Jackson, the only TD without any weaknesses, and basically uncounterable Scotts.


White Phosphorous rounds are a huge PITA too. They should be made more expensive for how hard they are to deal with.

Jump back to quoted post1 Jul 2019, 16:20 PMMr.Flush

Can usf get a sniper if the pak howitzer gets nerfed?

Jump back to quoted post6 Jul 2019, 03:20 AMCorsin

Or give the Ost a gun that 1 shots squads like the Pak does? A sniper you can retreat from, the Pak you just gotta pray that the "RAPE" mechanic bugs and doesnt insta-kill your squad.

Also this would screw OKW.