Fusilers

Anyone find that Fusilers maybe come too early in the new commander? I am finding this commander pretty super cancer to play against as they just spam 4 6 man fusilers at the beginning of the game seems a bit overwhelming because they are by no means shit at any point in the game. They are somewhat weak at the start of the game but just seem to turn into monsters every minute the game goes on. They can replace okw main line infantry at the start of the game I cannot think of any other call in infantry that can really do that because of cp requirement delays that and most call in infantry are small squads or do not have as much utility to allow them to completely replace mainline infantry. I think there early game weakness is nulled by their field presence and squad size. Seems to me most other quick call in infantry lacks late game for a reason or have some sort of a downfall with stronger call in infantry coming in later in the game.

Just think maybe they come too early kind of a blob promoting delay to tiger commander only its a bit harder to make them pay with fusiler blob because of their survivability/squad size. Other than that i think the commander is ok nice for okw to have a choice of a tiger 1 to mix it up a bit.

3 g43s and an extra man for 90 muni is pretty stronk. Kinda ridiculous that they're only 25 to reinforce too; g43 grens don't even hold a candle to pfusies once they get the upgrade.

Anyone find that Fusilers maybe come too early in the new commander? I am finding this commander pretty super cancer to play against as they just spam 4 6 man fusilers at the beginning of the game seems a bit overwhelming because they are by no means shit at any point in the game. They are somewhat weak at the start of the game but just seem to turn into monsters every minute the game goes on. They can replace okw main line infantry at the start of the game I cannot think of any other call in infantry that can really do that because of cp requirement delays that and most call in infantry are small squads or do not have as much utility to allow them to completely replace mainline infantry. I think there early game weakness is nulled by their field presence and squad size. Seems to me most other quick call in infantry lacks late game for a reason or have some sort of a downfall with stronger call in infantry coming in later in the game.

Just think maybe they come too early kind of a blob promoting delay to tiger commander only its a bit harder to make them pay with fusiler blob because of their survivability/squad size. Other than that i think the commander is ok nice for okw to have a choice of a tiger 1 to mix it up a bit.

Try playing with the commander and you will find out that you can spam 4 6men PF at the beginning of the game.

In addition try comparing cost efficiency of Penal and G43 PFs.

PF are probably the best designed alternative infatry since they timing is similar to the mainline infatry (implementation might need changes) and other early infatry should follow the same design.

The Tiger timing is a real issue.

Try playing with the commander and you will find out that you can spam 4 6men PF at the beginning of the game.

In addition try comparing cost efficiency of Penal and G43 Pgs.

The Tiger timing is a real issue.

4 PFs is definitely doable as an opening, and it'll be a little weaker at the beginning but once they all get g43s they'll win almost every engagement.

Penals and g43 PGs are both more to reinforce than pfusies are and both cost more to make in the first place (although they are a lot better vanilla). With g43s, pfusies are at least equal if not straight up better with high vet than both penals and PGs.

Panzerfusiliers are weaker than Volksgrenadiers in the early game.

They're meant to be carry infantry: if you can weather the weaker opening, they scale btter.

I think we will see the power of the Fusiliers this weekend since Spec Ops and Overwatch/Scavenge are likely to be banned heavily in the tournament.

4 PFs is definitely doable as an opening, and it'll be a little weaker at the beginning but once they all get g43s they'll win almost every engagement.

Note the 6 men PF claim, that is not doable you need a truck set up and and 360 MU.

Penals and g43 PGs are both more to reinforce than pfusies are and both cost more to make in the first place (although they are a lot better vanilla). With g43s, pfusies are at least equal if not straight up better with high vet than both penals and PGs.

Penals can reinforce for 27 and they can use merge vs 25...6 men Pg cost 305 MP/90MP vs 300 for Penals.

Note also the timing of Penal and timing of 6 men PF.

Penal battalion vet 3 have DPS at 10/20/36
41.3/33.6/20.6

PF vet 3 have 66.69/25.8/17.2

So they are not straight up better than Penals.

4 PFs is definitely doable as an opening, and it'll be a little weaker at the beginning but once they all get g43s they'll win almost every engagement.

Against who?

Panzerfusiliers are weaker than Volksgrenadiers in the early game.

They're meant to be carry infantry: if you can weather the weaker opening, they scale btter.

If you were comparing 1v1 squad but thats not really how it happens or how they operate. They are always used in pair if not a blob, and even tho they may not “win” the opening engagement they delay like crazy because they are just hard to get out of cover or counter so they cost you time, time is what they need to start steam rolling them and okw.

To others, i was being a bit sarcastic change the number to 3 pfusiler squads does it really make a difference its still what turns into a 1 volk 3 fusiler blob with double roaming invisible rakatens possibly super hard to counter as you just cant beat fusilers with allied infantry bar maybe rangers or airborne. They also make you have to retreat way earlier when the g43s come on line or youll prolly get wiped. They just are too cheap come way too early with that commander and replace mainline infantry and get stronger the longer the game goes on. They shouldnt have snares but almost all axis call in infantry does for some reason ive never understood when in general snares hurt allies more than axis imo as a lot of axis tanks including armor skirt p4s have a much better chance of escaping vs a sherman of any form, well pretty much anything allied other than persh or is2 isu, also the general idea of allies built around medium flank play.

I think we will see the power of the Fusiliers this weekend since Spec Ops and Overwatch/Scavenge are likely to be banned heavily in the tournament.

Hell yeah!

I’m stoked to see some top level players show off what is actually OP vs what is complained about in the forums.

If you were comparing 1v1 squad but thats not really how it happens or how they operate. They are always used in pair if not a blob, and even tho they may not “win” the opening engagement they delay like crazy because they are just hard to get out of cover or counter so they cost you time, time is what they need to start steam rolling them and okw.

This is true of any infantry squad.

Before G43s they're worse than Volks.

I have found them a little underwhelming honestly. Their worse performance early compared to volks and no sandbags makes a big impact on the early game.

On top of that they seem to vet slower than other mainline squads so if you have any un-upgraded once the enemy hits vet 2 you get smashed. Even upgraded they struggle vs 5 man sections with no brens.

The only thing I felt they were really useful for was shutting down the m3a1 due to the earlier snares.

I have found them a little underwhelming honestly. Their worse performance early compared to volks and no sandbags makes a big impact on the early game.

On top of that they seem to vet slower than other mainline squads so if you have any un-upgraded once the enemy hits vet 2 you get smashed. Even upgraded they struggle vs 5 man sections with no brens.

The only thing I felt they were really useful for was shutting down the m3a1 due to the earlier snares.

and thats why your an Actor. Thanks for the input.

I think we will see the power of the Fusiliers this weekend since Spec Ops and Overwatch/Scavenge are likely to be banned heavily in the tournament.

I think we're probably just going to see mostly ost. Dont think anyone is going to bother with okw + fusiliers, and if they do, I don't think its going to perform particularly well.

A LOT of reasons there. Top players are more practiced on ost. Ost has more commanders, so theyre more difficult to ban out. Okw has always been heavily spec ops reliant and performs much worse without spec ops. Players are probably even less practiced on okw without spec ops, specifically. Fusilier starts are really abuseable early game and mean relinquishing one of OKWs biggest strength. Grand offensive doesnt offer a lot for 1v1s.

6 man fussies become a thing only after 10 minutes, before that they take quite beating

I have found them a little underwhelming honestly. Their worse performance early compared to volks and no sandbags makes a big impact on the early game.

On top of that they seem to vet slower than other mainline squads so if you have any un-upgraded once the enemy hits vet 2 you get smashed. Even upgraded they struggle vs 5 man sections with no brens.

The only thing I felt they were really useful for was shutting down the m3a1 due to the earlier snares.

True indeed.

Funny thing is that Vet experience rate is an issue still experienced amongst most units!

OKW is broken.

One question:
Are Panzerfüsiliere worth it vs Brits?
I just played 2 matches against Brits in 2v2 game mode with the Jagdtiger-Commander.
Füsiliere and IS both cost 280 MP to build, only Füsiliere are a bit cheaper to reinforce. But they get >totally< wrecked against IS, even (how I felt) on super close range. No chance at all to win a fight, and Sturmpios often don't bring too much to the table once 3-4 sections are out.
Until I can finally upgrade them (around 7-10 minutes) I have to rely on my teammate to beat his opponent, because I won't have much map control. And by this time the IS are often upgraded as well, so getting to closer ranges is often not the best option anymore. If my teammate can not compensate me, than basically the whole game is screwed.