Ostheer T2 Skip

Jump back to quoted post24 Jun 2019, 18:56 PMWiderstreit

That is true, in 1vs1 it is a huge gap. But in larger team-game you can handle it.

I would be a huge fan of improving the abilities of Ostheer's light vehicles. They simply lose their role in late-game, while T70 can still snipe Obersoldaten etc. 222 becomes an AA, while Ostwind is simply better. It should be a mobile scoter for PaK and StuG etc.

German Pioneer is simply better at scouting, if 222 has no Scope (which is OP xD)

-> even when Pioneers are broken, because they have weapon-range of 35 with MP40, making them suicide Scouter.

Jump back to quoted post24 Jun 2019, 18:45 PMLago

It used to be: without it you relied on Panzerfausts and Teller mines for AT.

Now you get the Shreck PGrens in T0, it's much harder to make the argument for T2.



Before the Panzergrenadier changes, you (usually) had to build T2 anyway. Therefore, the cost of getting a 222 vs not getting a 222 was 200 MP, 30 FU.

However, now you can safely skip T2, the cost of getting a 222 vs not getting a 222 is 400 MP, 50 FU. If you're not going for a light vehicle, you don't really need to build T2 at all.

The 222 is excellent value for 200/30. Do you honestly think it's excellent value for 400/50?

Jump back to quoted post24 Jun 2019, 19:56 PMYeltsinDeathBrigades

My point is that you are not safely skipping T2. Pgrens cannot counter all stuff, which allies can bring in the field with the same timing as ostheer t2 alone.
Maybe it is a case in cancer formates like 3v3 and 4v4, but for G-ds sake, there is already a nerf of Tiger Ace arrival coming soon, as I understand. This is enough.

Jump back to quoted post24 Jun 2019, 20:35 PMIncendiaryRounds

The t1 and t2 skip strategy involves some risks unlike stuff like 5minute bolster. If Ost is gonna get their buff immediately nerfed because certain players don't know what "adaptation" means, Brit bolster should be looked into being changed.

Jump back to quoted post24 Jun 2019, 19:17 PMSkysTheLimit

So you go from wanting the thread closed because someone suggested MINOR nerfs to Ost, to criticising the thread saying it's just ppl not wanting to change, to now asking for Ost buffs.

If you can't ask for nerfs right after a bunch of buffs, then it's way more absurd to start talking about getting even more buffs

Jump back to quoted post24 Jun 2019, 20:37 PMLago

If the T2 skip is balanced, then buff T2. My argument is that now Panzershrecks don't need T2, building T2 does not provide a benefit proportional to its cost.

Jump back to quoted post24 Jun 2019, 20:48 PMIncendiaryRounds

How do u suppose we buff T2 without triggering at least half the forum aka allied fanboys?

Jump back to quoted post24 Jun 2019, 21:07 PMLago

If you're talking outright buffing it, reduce the cost of the building. More nuanced changes include moving part of its cost to Battle Phase 2.

My personal choice would be to lock the Panzershrecks behind T2 again, because I prefer skipping T2 to be the doctrinal trick it used to be rather than built into the core faction design. T2 is one of the strongest parts of Ostheer's design and I don't like the way it's been turned into a pricey sidetech.

Jump back to quoted post24 Jun 2019, 20:41 PMWiderstreit

It that really a buff? The only buff would be the repair aura. Next would be nerfing a OP ability, making an other unit worth in lategame by increase its sight by 10.

Jump back to quoted post24 Jun 2019, 21:22 PMYeltsinDeathBrigades

So you want to change the whole faction new desigh just because you personally don't like how things are going, am I right?

Jump back to quoted post24 Jun 2019, 21:22 PMYeltsinDeathBrigades

So you want to change the whole faction new desigh just because you personally don't like how things are going, am I right?

Jump back to quoted post24 Jun 2019, 21:51 PMBalanced_Gamer

Why do guys think the price should be increased?

I mean I think the price is fine/justified. I mean there is already TDs and AT weaponry by the time it arrives. I do not really see why it should be made more expensive when its main focus is Infantry and not Tanks.

I think Centaur should be made cheaper to the way Ostwind currently is in order to make more usage of it. I do not see why it should be 100 fuel now that it is on par with Centaur.

Making it expensive for both I think is a bad resolution.

Both Centaur and Ostwind, should be 90 fuel.

If you dont have AT, then that is clearly the players fault if you cant counter it because you went inf only.

Why make it higher than the price of T34 which can clearly do the role against both inf and tanks. There are even TDs, even doctrinal that costs 80 and 90 fuel. The USF Doc Wolverine and the UKF Achillies both costing 80 fuel.

Why increase their price, makes no sense really!


IDEAL RESOLUTION

for both UKF Centaur and WEHR Ostwind
Both set to 90 fuel. It is fair and sqaure. Bingo!

Improve both UKF and WEHR gameplay!

We are all happy then.

No reason to make it 100 fuel when it has only 1 capability, infantry mainly. Can be countered. It does not counter mediums at all!

Jump back to quoted post24 Jun 2019, 21:56 PMFarlion

Great point. While we're at it, let's also give Wehrmacht a fifth man upgrade that they can get at around minute 5.

Fair and square!

Jump back to quoted post24 Jun 2019, 21:51 PMBalanced_Gamer

Why do guys think the price should be increased?

Jump back to quoted post24 Jun 2019, 21:34 PMSkysTheLimit

You talked about generally buffing their light vehicles.

I'm just saying you can't say "learn to adapt" just because someone mentions nerfing Ost 2 weeks after a patch, but then turn around a few posts later and say Ost needs more buffs. That's just biased

Jump back to quoted post24 Jun 2019, 22:05 PMLago

I don't think the Ostwind's price is even relevant.

The problem is you no longer need to build T2 if you're not using the Ostheer lights. Panzergrenadiers have your anti-light AT duties covered.

Previously, if you chose not to build a 222/251, you'd save yourself 200 MP 30 FU.

Now, if you choose not to build a 222, you save yourself 400 MP 50 FU.

Opening up this T2 skipping route hugely increases the opportunity cost of Ostheer's T2 units.

Jump back to quoted post24 Jun 2019, 22:10 PMBalanced_Gamer

I mean that is a choice.

You can not simply force a price increase when the player risked not using light vehicles to take advantage of territorial control. Even, then not using T2 is a risk also.

It should risk rewarded and risk unrewarded. If player decides skipping T2.

Increasing price would mean otherwise!