New Commander Update Patch June 14th

Yeah. Skipping all tier structures then going straight to Tiger is quite potent when you factor in the buffed Assault Grenadiers (early anti infantry call in squad) and Panzer Grenadiers (good all around infantry that can get panzershrecks as AT with no building) and MG42 teams are already built from the HQ building.

The problem isn’t that any squad is OP. The problem is that the new commander allows Wehrmacht to skip all tech building while retaining a strong force with glaring weaknesses. You can skip the PaK40 and T2 because of newly buffed PanzerGrenadiers being moved to HQ and skip T1 because you can get newly buffed Assault Grenadiers as call ins backed up by an MG42 or two because they are also in the HQ!

Counter with infantry? Nope. PanzerGrenadiers are good at all ranges now, plus they don’t have to build tech for them so you save investment manpower which negates their main weakness (high cost/investment). Plus early rush of Assault Grenadiers are also a tough but now.

Counter with light vehicles? Nope, PanzerGrenadiers again, this time with panzershrecks.

Counter with HMG teams? Nope, damn PanzerGrenadiers at it again with smoke grenades to punch straight through (like old days Riflemen with smoke grenades which was deemed too OP I might add. Lol )

Counter with medium tanks? Nope, PanzerGrenadiers still got you covered with the panzershrecks. Not as bad as before but now they’re just stalling until the Tiger hits and thumbs down your medium tanks.

Counter with snipers? This might work except that USF does not have one. Bummer. Maybe urban assault could add one maybe? Or a reworked rifle company maybe? I’m just throwing out ideas guys.

I’d like to see your ideas on a good counter to this. Doesn’t have to be a change to the game, just a strategy that y’all find that works.

How are Panzer Grens good at all ranges now? They're still mid range units.

And every MG bar the Vickers will be able to readjust before the Panzer Grens are unsuppressed.

Seems you are just crying that Wehrmacht is finally on a level playing field.

Anyways, back more on topic, it seems like PanzerGrenadiers got over buffed.

Been watching some casts and damn if they aren’t performing really strongly.

My fix/ slight nerf would be to return them to the WM tier 2. (I’ve never liked the idea of building multiple tiers of units from the HQ building anyways.)

I don’t have a problem with them being powerful, but separating them from a tier structure allows for more tech skipping strategies that I thought we all agreed is bad for balance.

Stalling for late game tanks with early game call ins is just as bad if not worse than stalling for late game call ins with a heavy tier 1 and 2.

Just put PGs back in tier 2. The Allied equivalent would be if Soviets unlocked Penal Troops at the HQ they unlocked molotovs or something.

I argued that the pgren timing was problematic to Miragefla but he seemed to push on and was fixated that the issue was with timing regardless. Facts are top players pre patch like Jove WERE already using pgren rush strats to great success, just because the majority only built one or two squads mid game that doesn't mean the unit is in need of a straight up buff until you can fill your army with em.

Imo pgrens if they are going to come before their light vehicle counters should require StG being an upgrade like old storms or obers

As it is you can now build four pgren squads quite easily and just spam teller mines before enemy LVs arrive because they require no muni investment like grens...

Then we've also seen direct nerfs to pgren counters like Bren carrier. The patch was rushed and despite some good work by Devs (I do applaud you guys for your hard work) but this patch could have used an extra month in the cooker. The tiger changes have also invalidated most other old tiger docs because these ones are now straight up better with little trade off... But that's already being discussed in the heavy thread.

Probably should have bundled them in a heavy tank focused patch rather than doing things piecemeal

Yeah. Skipping all tier structures then going straight to Tiger is quite potent when you factor in the buffed Assault Grenadiers (early anti infantry call in squad) and Panzer Grenadiers (good all around infantry that can get panzershrecks as AT with no building) and MG42 teams are already built from the HQ building.

The problem isn’t that any squad is OP. The problem is that the new commander allows Wehrmacht to skip all tech building while retaining a strong force with glaring weaknesses. You can skip the PaK40 and T2 because of newly buffed PanzerGrenadiers being moved to HQ and skip T1 because you can get newly buffed Assault Grenadiers as call ins backed up by an MG42 or two because they are also in the HQ!

Counter with infantry? Nope. PanzerGrenadiers are good at all ranges now, plus they don’t have to build tech for them so you save investment manpower which negates their main weakness (high cost/investment). Plus early rush of Assault Grenadiers are also a tough but now.

Counter with light vehicles? Nope, PanzerGrenadiers again, this time with panzershrecks.

Counter with HMG teams? Nope, damn PanzerGrenadiers at it again with smoke grenades to punch straight through (like old days Riflemen with smoke grenades which was deemed too OP I might add. Lol )

Counter with medium tanks? Nope, PanzerGrenadiers still got you covered with the panzershrecks. Not as bad as before but now they’re just stalling until the Tiger hits and thumbs down your medium tanks.

Counter with snipers? This might work except that USF does not have one. Bummer. Maybe urban assault could add one maybe? Or a reworked rifle company maybe? I’m just throwing out ideas guys.

I’d like to see your ideas on a good counter to this. Doesn’t have to be a change to the game, just a strategy that y’all find that works.

Tiger rush is for the fun, Ostwind rush is serious business.

Counter with infantry? Nope. PanzerGrenadiers are good at all ranges now, plus they don’t have to build tech for them so you save investment manpower which negates their main weakness (high cost/investment). Plus early rush of Assault Grenadiers are also a tough but now.

this is how u know people don't read patch notes and just talk cause they lost a game, there has been no statistical changes to the dps of the pgreen

btw u can't put away shreck so if they upgrade they become almost worthless in AI

this is how u know people don't read patch notes and just talk cause they lost a game, there has been no statistical changes to the dps of the pgreen

btw u can't put away shreck so if they upgrade they become almost worthless in AI

Well, vet2 change allows them to get more DPS much faster then before and vet1 if conditions are met, allows them to stay on field much longer.

Base DPS is in fact unchanged tho, but their scaling is fast and amazing now.

(and 98% of all balance threads here are because someone lost a game and X unit was last thing they have seen, even tho the game was lost for last 20 minutes already)

Well, vet2 change allows them to get more DPS much faster then before and vet1 if conditions are met, allows them to stay on field much longer.

Base DPS is in fact unchanged tho, but their scaling is fast and amazing now.

(and 98% of all balance threads here are because someone lost a game and X unit was last thing they have seen, even tho the game was lost for last 20 minutes already)

yes but thy didn't get any boost of range dps they are still the same curve

Without parachuting paratroopers just reconnaissance platoon. They do not have intelligence bulletins?
Can we call this commander - Airborne? No skin, no parachute animation, from the airborne theme here only the retreat point which is called the airborne retreat point. Total disappointment, I didn’t want to see such an airborne commander since 2014.

Yeah, Calling this doctrine airborne is stupid. Get rid of the planes on paras give them a call in off map naval barrage and rename to Naval Infantry (Your text..)

Yeah, Calling this doctrine airborne is stupid. Get rid of the planes on paras give them a call in off map naval barrage and rename to Naval Infantry (Your text..)

https://www.coh2.org/topic/91781/new-commander-update-patch-june-14th/post/751252

I have already said that in the current state it is just a front-line reconnaissance group, and offered my own options for changes. Because to call the current commander of the Airborne Forces is a mockery.

Airborne to air support rename when?

Airborne to air support rename when?

Why not? Perhaps this best describes this commander.

The Soviet AT strafe in Airborne is really bad and needs to be replaced/fixed so the doctrine has some sort of late game scaling. Generally not impressed with the doctrine. It´s not viable compared to many other Soviet doctrines. Nothing to counter static play, no heavy tank, elite infantry call-in that is worse than Shocks and vanilla Guards, Dshk is not great, not terrible. I had a game where its AT rounds vs Luchs and they did close to zero damage. Maybe it´s bugged?

Assault Grenadiers and Panzergrens are still a bit meh IMO. Good vs Soviets but not useful vs USF and UKF. They just get melted too fast. Probably in a OK spot though considering MG42 support from T0.

Ostwind is too good now. It needs to be adjusted. It´s deadly as a Centaur but with more mobility and cheaper cost. Not just against infantry but it also melts AECs, Stuarts, T70s and SU 76 super fast.

RE rifle grenade is too good too. It´s so annoying to fight against USF infantry blob that is supported by a rear echelon sitting in a house and lobbying grenades non stop. You have to move lose cover and have no way to win the engagement. Maybe make it so it cant lob grenades from inside buildings?

OKW doctrine is in a good spot.

Both Tigers are well balanced and fun to use.

Ostwind is too good now. It needs to be adjusted. It´s deadly as a Centaur but with more mobility and cheaper cost. Not just against infantry but it also melts AECs, Stuarts, T70s and SU 76 super fast.

It does not melt any of those. Will it beat them? Yes, but it does not melt them in way or form.

If you want to see something melt, I suggest you see what Centaur does to a Luchs and compare the time it takes to kill them.

I feel that pgren shrecks should be locked behind T2, with a pgren rush strategy, you barely have to use munitions, which makes getting those normally hard to afford shrecks much easier.

Otherwise having them start with 2 STG44 and 2K98 or maybe 2 MP40 and giving them a 60 munitions upgrade that gives them 2 more STG44 could work, then their MP cost should probably be reduced to ~320. G43 upgrade will have to be looked at as well.

Personally, I would prefer the first option, and I do think that having an ability to skip t1 and t2 is a bit much.

Luchs is way faster than Centaur. Meanwhile LVs can´t just escape the Ostwind by driving away. Unless you get lucky and the Ostwind doesn´t hit it absolutly does melt any LV. Not sure what game you are playing.

Dshk is not great, not terrible. I had a game where its AT rounds vs Luchs and they did close to zero damage. Maybe it´s bugged?

Not bugged. It has 7/6/5 penetration. AP rounds give +200% pen so 21/18/15 pen. That's great for killing half tracks and 222s but the Luchs has 55 armor. That's a 38%/33%/27% chance to pen for 10 damage per bullet vs Luch's 400 health. DSHK also has pretty low ROF and burst durations.

The M2HB barely does any damage to a Luchs either and its AP ability gives increased damage too.


As for Ostwind versus light vehicles, I wouldn't call this melting (15:15m):

Question on the patch:

1) Why did they get rid of trenches for Brits IS?

2) How come OKW skins do not work on Tiger?

Question on the patch:

1) Why did they get rid of trenches for Brits IS?

2) How come OKW skins do not work on Tiger?

1 bug
2 bug

Ostwind is too good now. It needs to be adjusted. It´s deadly as a Centaur but with more mobility and cheaper cost. Not just against infantry but it also melts AECs, Stuarts, T70s and SU 76 super fast.

there were no changes to pen or damage, they just made that it reloads every 7 bullets instead of 5

there were no changes to pen or damage, they just made that it reloads every 7 bullets instead of 5

There is no pen or damage change when tanks vet up too, yet their AT and AI dps increases a lot.
Lets figure this mystery out together!

there were no changes to pen or damage, they just made that it reloads every 7 bullets instead of 5

The ostwind shoots WAY faster than before due to the decreased cool down and fires more rounds before it reloads. That´s why it does more damage. It does not take rocket sciene to understand it.