My defunct Pgren buff idea

Jump back to quoted post12 May 2019, 07:59 AMKiwiBirb

Seeing as Pgrens got a nice buff in the commander mod, this is pretty pointless, but here goes anyways.

Why I, a rank 1500 player, thought Pgrens sucked.

They come late. If you only get 3 grens so that you can get Pgrens and so that your first 222 is on time you lose so much map control
If you get 4 grens into Pgrens, you have no AT to kill that m20/UC/M3 that has been harassing you
They lose so much DPS dropping 1 model

So I wanted to have 2 of the Pgrens have MP40s, with a 30 % damage reduction compared to their current STG 44s,, and their stg44s get a 30% damage increase. That way dropping 1 model doesn’t kill their dps.

The can now put away 2 of their weaopans and take out 2 PzB 39 AT rifles, like how Sturmpioneers can take out/put away their sweeper. This allows them to counter light vehicles.

Schrek upgrade would replace the AT rifles and they wouldn’t be able to be put away

Jump back to quoted post12 May 2019, 11:31 AMWAAAGH2000

30%damage reduce too OP...1.5 to 2 armor is enough...

Jump back to quoted post12 May 2019, 11:35 AMKatitof

"30% too op, lets make it 50% or 100% more EHP instead!"



(psst, the name comes from the being a mechanized infantry, not walking tanks)

Jump back to quoted post12 May 2019, 12:25 PMWAAAGH2000

ShockTroopers EHP at Vet2 is about 864
If PG got 1.5 armor,at vet2,PG EHP is about 867,but infantry armor only work when they face small arms，30% damage reduction is real walking tank

Jump back to quoted post12 May 2019, 12:27 PMKatitof

And why a 4 man squad should have 8 man worth of durability?
I mean, sure, if we up their price to 500mp we can go with it.

Jump back to quoted post12 May 2019, 12:43 PMWAAAGH2000

Because PG cost 340/34 manpower and they are close combat infantry

Jump back to quoted post12 May 2019, 12:27 PMKatitof

And why a 4 man squad should have 8 man worth of durability?
I mean, sure, if we up their price to 500mp we can go with it.

Jump back to quoted post12 May 2019, 12:53 PMKatitof

No, they are not close comabt infantry.
They are mid range infantry.
They are also 4 men squad that is most certainly NOT meant to frontally assault anything.
That's what assault grenadiers are for.

No wonder 99% of threads fail to identify any kind of balance issue, when players are completely oblivious to how the unit is supposed to function.

You want shock troops?
You play soviets.

Jump back to quoted post12 May 2019, 13:11 PMBalanced_Gamer

And why a 6 man Shocks squad will be 12 man worth of durability? guess Shocks will be now 750 manpower. Pretty much the same argument.

Anyway. I do not think it is a bad idea for them to get "armour upgrade". Shocks get armour to engage closer range engagements and they are an elite unit although doctrinal. It would be fair to the extent that Pzgrens get some "body armour protection" upgrade (so it will cost around 60 ammo, will lock out Pzshreks) since it is an elite unit, it is meant to carry engagements.

Panzergrenadiers, so it will have either the choice of carring AT or AI engagements.

Jump back to quoted post12 May 2019, 13:58 PMKatitof

Because they are very intended to go up frontally and ACTUALLY WEAR BODY ARMOR.


Shocks are frontal assault troops with actual steel armor plates on them.
PG uniforms aren't made from ubermenschium and will never be.
Shocks are doctrinal AI specialist squad.
PGs are not.
Shocks have no strong long range supporting troops able to snipe models.
PGs do.

No idea why I'm even wasting breath on you here.
We both know that any stock survivability improvements for PGs are fantasy, regardless how you'll word it out.

Jump back to quoted post12 May 2019, 14:08 PMBalanced_Gamer

Shock troops armour makes no sense to repel any bolt action or assualt rifle or even STG44. It was only meant for counters against SMG small caliber like MP40 max. The whole idea shocks repelling all small arms in this game is definitely a joke.

Why waste your breath on trying to justify Shocks having that good of a fantasised armour. Armour was not meant to repel huge/ intermidate calibres. Only for SMG's

Jump back to quoted post12 May 2019, 14:08 PMBalanced_Gamer

Why waste your breath on trying to justify Shocks having that good of a fantasised armour. Armour was not meant to repel huge/ intermidate calibres. Only for SMG's

Jump back to quoted post12 May 2019, 14:43 PMMusti

Hey, let me tell you a secret.
It's a game

Anyway I don't see any point in giving them armour, they already get lower RA, which works better than armour anyway, since it doesn't get less effective against light vehicles and MGs.

Jump back to quoted post12 May 2019, 15:07 PMthedarkarmadillo

The damage reduction comment chain is a failure anyways because using Context the OP is talking about reducing the dps on the mp40 by 30% not incoming damage. THE OP wants to mitigate damage loss when dropping models by stacking 2 models and having 2 lesser models that when full health would deal she same damage.

Basicly we have the damage now being (gunna use arbitrary round numbers)
10 x 4 = 40
Losing a model brings it to 30
Another to 20

Ops idea is (13x2)+(7x2)=40
Losing the first model brings it to 33
Another to 26

They want to preserve some of the dps via losses

Jump back to quoted post12 May 2019, 07:59 AMKiwiBirb

They come late. If you only get 3 grens so that you can get Pgrens and so that your first 222 is on time you lose so much map control
If you get 4 grens into Pgrens, you have no AT to kill that m20/UC/M3 that has been harassing you