Some Love to OST

OST is meant to have weak lategame infantry. Even if that doesnt sounds fair.
As a thumb rule, OST strongest point ingame is always midgame, because of FHT, Pz4, LMG42, Panthers, Pwerfer. After that, other factions have better time in what is lategame. To name a few, OKW, SU, USF.

Infantry starts Ok (MG42 is beast), then the strongest point in midgame (Pgren, combined arms and team weapons) and then lingers.
Same goes for armour, with a little lategame presence.

But the advantage is that OST doesnt lack any important tool. Doctrinal commanders add to the mix and empowers some of the already strong aspects of OST.

I think a damage reduction in terms of explosives is what Osteehr infantry needs. That is what it needs at least.

If the conscript changes about 7th member go ahead I would suggest a 5 men for grenadiers with a similar design, for the same reasons.

Grenadier are simply not worth building in late game.

If the conscript changes about 7th member go ahead I would suggest a 5 men for grenadiers with a similar design, for the same reasons.

Grenadier are simply not worth building in late game.

5 man squad grens with faster vet and cover bonus and WITHOUT any weapon, i don't think that this will fit you in lategame? If you need 5-man grens you can choose doc with it and even get g43 and you even don't need wait you T4!

5 man squad grens with faster vet and cover bonus and WITHOUT any weapon, i don't think that this will fit you in lategame? If you need 5-man grens you can choose doc with it and even get g43 and you even don't need wait you T4!

I do not like people keep mentioning The German Infantry Doctrine with 5 man. I does not help. It feels like elements which should have been introduced by default in a less effective scale. In fact, most of the elements introduced within the doctrine should have had been introduced to default Wehrmacht. At least they are getting the Panzergrenadiers right fulfilling the role of a "mechanized unit". There should be a default option, mainly for late game purposes maybe alike what Cons are getting with additonal men.

There should be for Grenadier as I have mentioned before in other forums

1./ its current MG42 upgrade, purpose for "extra firepower" 60 ammo

or

2./ additional man for , "extra survivability". 60 ammo

You can pick one or the other. Not both, not until Battle Phase 3 and both will cost you in total 120 ammo. Costy, right?

I believe this is a good step or diverse mechanic. No too strong or OP. The idea is, you can pick one upgrade in the beginning only until Battle Phase 3 where you can get both. Have to upgrade individually.

It should create a dilemma or difficult choice as one will have to pick one element over the other.

SU should get Molotov upgrade free and the AT costing only.

Like what the British Elements have although they have (Bolster Squad) it at more cost effective option. It should not be a problem

I think Conscripts should have 8 man squad. Upgrade should come earlier. 6 men equipped with weapons, the other 2 unarmed but waiting for other models to die in order to get their weapon. Fits the historical aspect like the Movie "Enemy at The Gates". Not all cons had rifles, they had to get it from another dead con. Create this element of "Human Wave Tactics" would surely improve the elements of the game and SU.

There should be for Grenadier as I have mentioned before in other forums

1./ its current MG42 upgrade, purpose for "extra firepower" 60 ammo

or

2./ additional man for , "extra survivability". 60 ammo

You can pick one or the other. Not both, not until Battle Phase 3 and both will cost you in total 120 ammo. Costy, right?

I believe this is a good step or diverse mechanic. No too strong or OP. The idea is, you can pick one upgrade in the beginning only until Battle Phase 3 where you can get both. Have to upgrade individually.

It should create a dilemma or difficult choice as one will have to pick one element over the other.

You want make from grens cutted version of osttruppen with 5-th man upgrade? I think more simple approach is doctrine with relief infantry ability, if you want lategame canon fodder. I think you agree that 90 ammo for even one 200 MP squad is very good trade in lategame (i could got all 3 squads from one activation, when i have 1-st squad of osttruppens)? After, just hit ability on cd and get your endless waves of canon fodder. No need weapon upgrades, only new mg-42s and paks for them, if enemy enough smart to destroy my team weapon. Grens even with 5-th mans and same bonuses as 7-th cons, couldn't even close to such efficiency from terms of resources. Grens without weapon upgrade will become free vet for ally elite infantry.

SU should get Molotov upgrade free and the AT costing only.

Like what the British Elements have although they have (Bolster Squad) it at more cost effective option. It should not be a problem

I think Conscripts should have 8 man squad. Upgrade should come earlier. 6 men equipped with weapons, the other 2 unarmed but waiting for other models to die in order to get their weapon. Fits the historical aspect like the Movie "Enemy at The Gates". Not all cons had rifles, they had to get it from another dead con. Create this element of "Human Wave Tactics" would surely improve the elements of the game and SU.

No, hell no please. Don't even consider that 2 unarmed men waiting to grab weapon from deads it's like bad clishce from Enemy at Gates. We have enough this shit in company, no need to make this in multiplayer too. And how you imagine to deal with cover problems? One model that don't fit in cover under HMG fire will pin whole squad. If i need canon fodder for SU in lategame i choose doc with relief infantry and change my ammo for free squads.
IMHO cons never become SU mainline infantry. They only useful as fast AT-gren squad or with ppshs. 7-th man upgrade in T4, don't will make them popular.

Wait for the next patch, then let's see if Ost still needs help. There's already a very visible effort to help Ost. Buffing the mg42 is the last thing that should be done

In late game Grenadier has lowest HP

They also have support from strongest stock anti infanty vehicle in game, brummbar, which will 2 shoot any squad.

Again, ost doesn't rely on grens, they rely on combined arms, they are not brits, soviets or USF who HAVE to spam and rely on mainline infantry most of the time.

Hardly any infantry is relevant in late game due to existence of tanks and rocket arty.

CLOSE THIS THREAD. JUST WAIT FOR THE PATCH.

We already have the best solution for grens in the live version:
5 men squad with 1 g43.
Its tested and balanced. Question is if you want to do such a big change to main line infantry.

As other have said before we simple have to wait for the patch and see how things work. Ostwind will be a real game changer. Not so sure about pgrens. If Ost still sucks 4 weeks after the patch then more changes can be applied (together with the tech changes).

5 man squad grens with faster vet and cover bonus and WITHOUT any weapon, i don't think that this will fit you in lategame? If you need 5-man grens you can choose doc with it and even get g43 and you even don't need wait you T4!

The 5 men grenadier will serve the same role 7 men conscripts serve, they will replace squad that have been wiped.

They also have support from strongest stock anti infanty vehicle in game, brummbar, which will 2 shoot any squad.

Again, ost doesn't rely on grens, they rely on combined arms, they are not brits, soviets or USF who HAVE to spam and rely on mainline infantry most of the time.

Hardly any infantry is relevant in late game due to existence of tanks and rocket arty.

Ost rely on combined arms,I agree this,but I still think Ost Grenadier hard to survival in late game,and Grenadier vet bouns is...too extreme，splitting vet3 receive accuracy bouns like PG in test mod I think will more comfortable——at least Grenadier got some survival bouns in low vet

Ost rely on combined arms,I agree this,but I still think Ost Grenadier hard to survival in late game,and Grenadier vet bouns is...too extreme，splitting vet3 receive accuracy bouns like PG in test mod I think will more comfortable——at least Grenadier got some survival bouns in low vet

I agree its harder to keep them alife, but that's still no reason to give them more.
Infantry doesn't do much at that state of the game other then capping and AT-nading.

Gren units do not scale well late game. I am thinking after Battle Phase 3. Grens can purchase another MG42, allowing them to have 2 late game.

In order to combat those powerful UKF 5 man with 2 brens or USF for that matter.

Infantry gameplay is still important because those are still key viable supportive units late game. I do not think heavily relying on vehicles is a good excuse!

You might want to look up the damage stats on an LMG42 before suggesting equipping Grens with two of them.

Gren units do not scale well late game. I am thinking after Battle Phase 3. Grens can purchase another MG42, allowing them to have 2 late game.

In order to combat those powerful UKF 5 man with 2 brens or USF for that matter.

Infantry gameplay is still important because those are still key viable supportive units late game. I do not think heavily relying on vehicles is a good excuse!

And restart a loop of balance for cons? Even with 7-th man cons have chance to be defeated by grens with mg-42 (if you watched video from test where gren squad killed 7 cons and 3 men remained). With 2 mg42, they don't have a chance to win or even to hold a ground against them.

And restart a loop of balance for cons? Even with 7-th man cons have chance to be defeated by grens with mg-42 (if you watched video from test where gren squad killed 7 cons and 3 men remained). With 2 mg42, they don't have a chance to win or even to hold a ground against them.

Maybe you are right. I just find it kind of an issue when Grens have to combat with 5 man Tommies with 2 Brens making them unparalleled especially against USF.

I think the best would be to split the vet accuracy bonuses more vet between 1 , 2 and 3. Since the only time grens feel real good are when they reach vet 3, that is when it actually kicks in the accuracy bonus.

I still agree on the fact that Cons do need improvements. I mean I use them mostly as supportive currently but as a standalone unit, it is unreliable in comparison to every other base unit. I think SVT default upgrade option and 7 man.

Maybe add some bonuses instead of just med kit (which is rarely used) on vet 1. Pioneer can provide the medkits. Either accuracy or received accuracy would be greatly appreciated for vet 1 grens.

Or to make medkits more interesting. I provides slight boost performance, like in one of the doctrines that provides medkits giving them minor performance bonuses. Currently there is zero incentive to use medkits unless 4 guys remain damaged.

CLOSE THIS THREAD. JUST WAIT FOR THE PATCH.

^^^^^^^

Seriously. Buffs to Pgrens, StuG, Ostwind... not to mention all the doctrinal stuff that's getting fixed via Strategic Reserves. Why are we even talking about move love for Ost when there is already a fairly good chance that skipping Tier 1 strategies could be very strong now and whatever other fallout there may be from patch.

I don't know how to find a silver bullet for balance issues amongst infantry engagements. When you buff one mainline infantry squad other squads go to downside. If we can get another type of resources (like mana in RPG or energy) to split infantry and armor units. AS example: when you totally lost your squad you get back some part of their initial MP cost as "mana", later you could use this "mana" to get discount for new infantry unit. "Mana" works only for infantry and don't apply for armor.