Ostrruppen

To clarify the osttruppen k98 DPs is

Ranges 0/10/20/35
Listed as:
2.42/1.858/1.495/1.067

with the penalty actually:
1.21/0.93/0.75/0.53

when in cover
3.63/2.79/2.25/1.59

So a squad with 6 K98 has
21.78/16.74/13.5/9.54

compared to
21.68/15.62/11.90/6.36 of conscripts

Now the LMG probably still has the penalty (it is unclear from patch notes) and if it does have the penalty then it should be
when out of cover:
2.53/3.46/4.04/4.47

and
When in cover
1.90/2.59/3.03/3.35

That would bring the total squad DPS with an Lmg to

No cover 8.58/8.11/7.79/7.12
Cover 20.05/16.54/14.28/11.30

You misunderstood LMG penalty in cover and your numbers support that.

Its 0.5 when out of cover, but its REDUCED TO 0.25 penalty when in cover(not additional penalty stacked on 0.5 one, but 0.5 one changed to 0.75), meaning instead of losing 50% of DPS, in cover they lose only 25% of DPS.

That's where your numbers go off.

1 is default(gren LMG).
0.5 is LMG on osttruppen(50% accuracy penalty).
0.75 is LMG on osttruppen(25% accuracy penalty) in cover.
Meaning LMG on osttruppen in cover has 75% of DPS of gren LMG(making it cost effective, with its 75% of muni cost for the upgrade compared to gren lmg).

For Kars
1 is default
0.5 is out of cover
Cover bonus is 300% multiplier, meaning 1.5 would be DPS in cover.

100% cover bonus value would mean the cover DPS is still 0.5 multiplier
200% is 1
300% is 1.5 multiplier

It wasn't a "major nerf", its an adjustment that doesn't make Osttruppen into Obersoldaten with picked weapon.

I think me and Jae For Jett are in right about this one

Once more there is no out of cover penalty for Osttruppen's k98. Ostruppen have a universal 50% penalty regardless of cover status. This results to 0.5 DPS than the one listed.

K98 get a 300% bonus when in cover that results having x150 more DPS than the one listed when in cover.

The slots weapon seem to have a 25% penalty when in cover but it is unclear from then notes if they get the universals 50% penalty always or if they suffer a 50% penalty when out of cover.

It was clearly like that ver 1.5.1 but in the final version the changed the wording to something else which mean if one read it mean that 50% penalty is not changed (since it is not mentioned) but there is an addition modifier when in cover. It might simply unnecessary change and be bad wording, ant might that ver 1.5.1 and final are the same.


The change was a major nerf (again justified) because the DPS for slot weapon went from doing x150 more damage when in cover to 75% in other word the DPS is reduced to half.

You misunderstood LMG penalty in cover and your numbers support that.

Its 0.5 when out of cover, but its REDUCED TO 0.25 penalty when in cover(not additional penalty stacked on 0.5 one, but 0.5 one changed to 0.75), meaning instead of losing 50% of DPS, in cover they lose only 25% of DPS.

That's where your numbers go off.

As I said for the LMG it is unclear for the K98 your number where off because there is no 200% bonus its 50%x300% = 150%

So did Ostruppen get a ninja nerf or something?

I think they should get Widerstreit's new trenches and a Panzerbusche 39 package to be honest.

Even if it replaces the MG42 upgrade, I could live with that.

So did Ostruppen get a ninja nerf or something?

It is not a ninja nerf. It is documented but it is badly described.

Ostrrupen used to be OP when they picked or spawned with weapons because they got a x1.5 accuracy modifier to them when in cover.

Now they can buy weapon but have only 1 slot and the weapon is inferior to Grenadier versions. How inferior is a bit unclear.

I'm a long time user of Ostruppen doc, and I actually prefer the old doctrine, just shift the trench, sandbag, etc. building to CP1.

I think making them a default unit in HQ would be a nice option. They are not that much of a doctrine unit, considering doctrine units are expected to be usually powerful or of more usefulness. I think making it a default unit would be a great addition to Wehrmacht.

I think making them a default unit in HQ would be a nice option. They are not that much of a doctrine unit, considering doctrine units are expected to be usually powerful or of more usefulness. I think making it a default unit would be a great addition to Wehrmacht.

What would they be replaced with in their doctrines then?

What would they be replaced with in their doctrines then?

Bolster Pios. Pios get 5 man option. Only limited to Pios. Not to grens also. Just pios seems like a good idea or replacement.

Bolster Pios. Pios get 5 man option. Only limited to Pios. Not to grens also. Just pios seems like a good idea or replacement.

Wait do you mean that idea someone mentioned about 5 man Panzerbusche 39 eqipped Pioneers?

Wait do you mean that idea someone mentioned about 5 man Panzerbusche 39 eqipped Pioneers?

No, that would be too much. Just 5 man option pios. Just 5 man pios is good idea I would say. Nothing more, nothing less. 5 man Pios only available. No Panzerbusche. That would be too much.

It would help Osteehr to increase repair speed and use Pios. I feel that is a good option.

My suggestion about Osttruppen would be remove LMG upgrade allow an upgrade in the same spirit to the one conscripts get in the patch.

The Upgrade the unit to Ostlegionen/Osteinheiten could change the unit to remove the cover mechanism and perfome closer to conscripts. Could include target size 1, merge, grenade and maybe At riflers.

My suggestion about Osttruppen would be remove LMG upgrade allow an upgrade in the same spirit to the one conscripts get in the patch.

The Upgrade the unit to Ostlegionen/Osteinheiten could change the unit to remove the cover mechanism and perfome closer to conscripts. Could include target size 1, merge, grenade and maybe At riflers.

I'm all for merge and AT rifles.

My suggestion about Osttruppen would be remove LMG upgrade allow an upgrade in the same spirit to the one conscripts get in the patch.

The Upgrade the unit to Ostlegionen/Osteinheiten could change the unit to remove the cover mechanism and perfome closer to conscripts. Could include target size 1, merge, grenade and maybe At riflers.

Ostruppen, I do not think their performance should change. Their MG upgrade comes only when Base Tier 3 is researched which is late game. Cover mechanism is good since they only deal 8 damage per unit. Taking that away would make them horrible. They are a unit that relies heavily on cover compared to IS.

Ostruppen should be separate in terms of abilities and performances differences and uniqueness. Although I would not mind merging, but not change their performance. I am curious to hear your suggestions to the way their performance should be changed, in what exactly do you mean? Will their damage be the same, or increased. That kind of stuff!

Conscripts which I hope soon enough get 7 man squad option. Should be available any time. I think 17 manpower cost to resupply is too cheap, maybe 20-23 manpower.

Ostruppen, I do not think their performance should change. Their MG upgrade comes only when Base Tier 3 is researched which is late game. Cover mechanism is good since they only deal 8 damage per unit. Taking that away would make them horrible. They are a unit that relies heavily on cover compared to IS.

Ostruppen should be separate in terms of abilities and performances differences and uniqueness. Although I would not mind merging, but not change their performance. I am curious to hear your suggestions to the way their performance should be changed, in what exactly do you mean? Will their damage be the same, or increased. That kind of stuff!

Conscripts which I hope soon enough get 7 man squad option. Should be available any time. I think 17 manpower cost to resupply is too cheap, maybe 20-23 manpower.

Damage on its own does not mean much DPS is far more relevant.

The idea is changing them to be closer to conscripts once upgrade so their weapon could also be closer to Mosin also. They could even use Soviet made weapons.

Damage on its own does not mean much DPS is far more relevant.

The idea is changing them to be closer to conscripts once upgrade so their weapon could also be closer to Mosin also. They could even use Soviet made weapons.

So are you saying that there is an upgrade option, remove MG42 option for improved rifles dealing from 8 to 12 damage instead. Is that what you mean?

Is that the only change or is there more to it?

So are you saying that there is an upgrade option, remove MG42 option for improved rifles dealing from 8 to 12 damage instead. Is that what you mean?

Is that the only change or is there more to it?

Target size to 1


Merge
grenade (or Molotov)
removal of cover mechanism
Increase time and cost to reinforce close to conscripts
Weapon profile close to conscripts
XP value close to cosncripts

Target size to 1


Merge
grenade (or Molotov)
removal of cover mechanism
Increase time and cost to reinforce close to conscripts
Weapon profile close to conscripts
XP value close to cosncripts

Didn't you also say AT Rifle upgrade package?

Didn't you also say AT Rifle upgrade package?

It a possibility. I would reluctant in both removing the cover penalty and allowing AT rifle upgrade, it would require testing.

But the At rifle could be a separate option for ostruppen.