Soviet Core changes commander Revamp Patch

Great answer, all other infantry units can use both cover and advanced weapons. But you use only cover.

Have you tested the unit in game?

Have you tested the unit in game?

Yes, and compared to the SVT-40 drop it is completely useless.

Yes, and compared to the SVT-40 drop it is completely useless.

You are comparing a stock ability with a commander ability and that simply leads to the wrong conclusions.

One could argue that compared to command panther, Panther is useless so lets buff the Panther...

Great, one rifle. it is not even close to one DP-27 worst machine gun in the game. And lose a real chance of improvement by taking abandoned MG-42/34.

1 rifle, and 80 more health AND an extra target that enemy fire will disperse damage across (they dont just pick 1 model and shoot it till dead)

just because you dont have it in you to see value in something other than straight dps buffs (which this ALSO provides when in cover, wher cons have always been designed to fight from) doesnt mean its useless.
the upgraded cons will hit harder, last longer and vet faster all very good traits for the role thy are supposed to fill. the 7th man allows them to more effectively merge and keep units on field as well. they are not intended to be obersoldaten but field presence. they outlast every other squad in the game and can keep fighting men like penals and guards in top fighting condition too. their new late game performance doesnt leave anything to be desired and maintains the unit identity.

You are comparing a stock ability with a commander ability and that simply leads to the wrong conclusions.

One could argue that compared to command panther, Panther is useless so lets buff the Panther...

No, because SVT-40 provides real benefits, cjnscripts become stronger in attack and in defense and in motion. 7 people 50 ammunition from 10-15 minutes are not even close to the usefulness of SVT-40. With your logic, what is useful should be blocked only in the commanders, let's take MG-42 from the grenadiers and put them in the commanders, because MG-42 is a real improvement.

- replace rifles with an old barrel and a rusty bolt with new rifles with a chrome-plated barrel (improve accuracy) and a smooth bolt (increases the rate of fire)

And how would you communicate this to the player? How is it even really different from adding a 7th man that adds DPS (as well as durability and utility)?

And how would you communicate this to the player? How is it even really different from adding a 7th man that adds DPS (as well as durability and utility)?

The fact that you do not need to stand like a tree behind cover, and it still does more damage without cover and in motion.

No, because SVT-40 provides real benefits, cjnscripts become stronger in attack and in defense and in motion. 7 people 50 ammunition from 10-15 minutes are not even close to the usefulness of SVT-40. With your logic, what is useful should be blocked only in the commanders, let's take MG-42 from the grenadiers and put them in the commanders, because MG-42 is a real improvement.

Hmmm maybe we could replace the 7 man upgrade with this upgrade instead:

Increase upgraded conscript damage output by 17%
Increase upgraded conscript durability by 17%
Decrease upgraded conscript reinforce cost by 15%
Keep the cover bonus which would stack with the dps increase
Keep the xp modifier as well

Sure any one of these buffs alone isnt great but combine them all and that's pretty potent.

Kappa

No, because SVT-40 provides real benefits, cjnscripts become stronger in attack and in defense and in motion. 7 people 50 ammunition from 10-15 minutes are not even close to the usefulness of SVT-40. With your logic, what is useful should be blocked only in the commanders, let's take MG-42 from the grenadiers and put them in the commanders, because MG-42 is a real improvement.

You seem to be confusing balance issues with diversity issues.

If LMG42 is moved to a commander the Ostheer faction will be completely UP and will only be playable with certain commanders.

The changes to Conscripts is there to increase diversity in builts and not to solve balance issues. The Soviet faction is doing quite well balance wise, since it has a number of other options besides conscripts.

This stock changes should be tested vs enemy units like grenadiers and not compared with the SVT which in untested doctrinal ability. The test so far has shown that conscripts trade very well vs grenadier.

You seem to be confusing balance issues with diversity issues.

If LMG42 is moved to a commander the Ostheer faction will be completely UP and will only be playable with certain commanders.

The changes to Conscripts is there to increase diversity in builts and not to solve balance issues. The Soviet faction is doing quite well balance wise, since it has a number of other options besides conscripts.

This stock changes should be tested vs enemy units like grenadiers and not compared with the SVT which in untested doctrinal ability.

Like conscripts for 6 years, they are viable with commanders who have PPSh-41 and new with SVT-40. That is, we will continue to pretend that the conscripts are fine and blur the problem with the 7th person and the cheap ones.

Can someone from the balance team enlighten me why we need 7 men Conscripts with cover bonus instead of a small and simple buff like slightly better accuracy for the Mosins or cheaper/free grenades, better vet, better RA etc.? To this day I still don´t understand what the idea behind all of this is if I am completly honest.

Do the SU Paratroopers parachute?

Or

Will they just appear like ghosts?

Can someone from the balance team enlighten me why we need 7 men Conscripts with cover bonus instead of a small and simple buff like slightly better accuracy for the Mosins or cheaper/free grenades, better vet, better RA etc.? To this day I still don´t understand what the idea behind all of this is if I am completly honest.

420 IQ solutions to 69 IQ problems.

Do the SU Paratroopers parachute?

Or

Will they just appear like ghosts?

Many have already asked this question, but there was no answer, apparently modders can not attach the animation of a parachute from the American and German paratroopers to a different model.

Many have already asked this question, but there was no answer, apparently modders can not attach the animation of a parachute from the American and German paratroopers to a different model.

Thanks

Honestly I think the fact that the 7thman cover bonus cons do better at long range than close range is a better reason to not go that route but it seems too little too late since Andy's post that the patch is finalized is set.

Oh well.

Can someone from the balance team enlighten me why we need 7 men Conscripts with cover bonus instead of a small and simple buff like slightly better accuracy for the Mosins or cheaper/free grenades, better vet, better RA etc.? To this day I still don´t understand what the idea behind all of this is if I am completly honest.

I think they should have gone with the "enemy at the gates" solution

10 man squads but only six get rifles, it would have been easier to balance

Hmmm maybe we could replace the 7 man upgrade with this upgrade instead:

Increase upgraded conscript damage output by 17%
Increase upgraded conscript durability by 17%
Decrease upgraded conscript reinforce cost by 15%
Keep the cover bonus which would stack with the dps increase
Keep the xp modifier as well

Sure any one of these buffs alone isnt great but combine them all and that's pretty potent.

Kappa

the exact same as we have now without the buff for merge

@crecer13 you need to keep in mind that the soviet have a number of infantry options and conscripts are not intended to replace any of them but instead work along side them. if you want DP28 lmgs, there is a squad for that. if you want SVTs there is a squad for that too. if you turn cons into any one of those things you make the others pointless. like wtf would be the point in penals if cons had non doc SVTs? who is going to dump 160mp into teching t1 and another 300(!!!!!!!!!!!) mp into penals if you get a reasonable facsimile in svt cons for a much lower price? and the DP28, that horrible idea.... great, now you have less cost efficient ostroppen... good change. you solved the issue. wooot. much fresh, such buff.

the 7th man reinforces cons role without stepping on other soviet squads toes. they are meant to hold the line and keep other units fighting, the 7th man accomplishes both of those tasks and also allows replacing squads to be less painful via increased vet rate and reduced reinforcement cost.

the exact same as we have now without the buff for merge

@crecer13 you need to keep in mind that the soviet have a number of infantry options and conscripts are not intended to replace any of them but instead work along side them. if you want DP28 lmgs, there is a squad for that. if you want SVTs there is a squad for that too. if you turn cons into any one of those things you make the others pointless. like wtf would be the point in penals if cons had non doc SVTs? who is going to dump 160mp into teching t1 and another 300(!!!!!!!!!!!) mp into penals if you get a reasonable facsimile in svt cons for a much lower price? and the DP28, that horrible idea.... great, now you have less cost efficient ostroppen... good change. you solved the issue. wooot. much fresh, such buff.

the 7th man reinforces cons role without stepping on other soviet squads toes. they are meant to hold the line and keep other units fighting, the 7th man accomplishes both of those tasks and also allows replacing squads to be less painful via increased vet rate and reduced reinforcement cost.

I have already said this, in the penals there was no point from the very beginning of the game. At first they were engineers on the steroids, now they are just an infantry squad in conflict with conscripts. And now we come up with ridiculous roles to justify this conflict. And this conflict will exist until the end of the game, and people continue to argue about the buffs and nerfs of conscripts and penals, about which one of them is the main infantry.

For T4 it's upgrade come too late. It should be in T3, or if we choose T4, it must be global upgrade for all cons. Because you always expect that upgrade that comes later than others give you the more power, but for such later time this upgrade don't look so nice. In comparsion you can look at OKW, in schwerer they get obers with lmg that good and fit with idea that, what comes the last give you the most. Because in ither options i don't see how SU can play gainst OKW throug cons. You lost infantry battles in early and midgame, and get little chance in late? Seriously?