Sections need their out of cover stats reverted

It effectively is behind T1.
It delays significantly AEC and you need that ASAP, if you go for bolster first, ost will steamroll you with FHT.

But meanwhile, Tommies win against Volks, while bolstered Tommies destroy them, and there's no early light vehicle to save OKW (Luchs comes after AEC, even with bolster, and is not as cost effective as the fht/222). So against OKW bolster is T0.

But meanwhile, Tommies win against Volks, while bolstered Tommies destroy them, and there's no early light vehicle to save OKW (Luchs comes after AEC, even with bolster, and is not as cost effective as the fht/222). So against OKW bolster is T0.

And.... what's exactly wrong with 280 mp mainline inf(later on with additional 35 fuel investment on top of that 280) beating 250 mp mainline inf and why it should be any other way? Why you don't complain that P4 kills T34/76 easily? Exact same issue here.

If your volks are losing to tommies, you have not built enough volks.
Also, 221 is a thing now, tommies are no answer to that, bolster or not.

And.... what's exactly wrong with 280 mp mainline inf(later on with additional 35 fuel investment on top of that 280) beating 250 mp mainline inf and how it should be any other way?

- I never said that the unbolstered tommy vs volk matchup should be any different. 280 manpower infantry should win against 250 manpower infantry. The problem is that UKF can pay 35 fuel to completely dominate every engagement. It would be like paying 35 fuel as OKW to get STG's on all your volks. Yes, you've-paid-for-it, but your opponent has no proper answer to it, that early in the game

- The fuel cost for going both AEC and bolster costs 120 fuel (detracting starting fuel), while the fuel cost for going Luchs is 115 fuel (detracting starting fuel). It's almost like UKF is intended to go early bolster, because it barely delays tech.

If your volks are losing to tommies, you have not built enough volks.

You can say that, but bolstered Tommies are much more cost efficient than Volks, you will lose the attrition game hard. The only option is to make a big volk deathblob or lose every engagement.

Also, 221 is a thing now, tommies are no answer to that, bolster or not.

The 221 has barely any armor and is easily beaten by a (vickered) UC and scared away by two Tommies. It's not like the fht that has enough impact to win a game. The actual meta is JLI (which trade well with Tommies), with leigs in the back (more popular in 2v2) or spec ops to crutch on light vehicle spam, while stalling for command panther. Both rely on minimizing the effectiveness of bolstered Tommies, which is impossible to do outside of abusing OKW cheese to the max.

Exactly, against bolster, u have to outmicro the Brit at everything because you have no answer against them 1v1. OKW needs to cheese light vehicles hard, Ost can cheese LV too, but it takes more skill due to less health and not bulletproof armor. Ost more commonly relies on the sniper. For the sniper to pay off u need to get 360/28 = 13 kills and that's not even a fair way to calculate it since u need to micro a sniper a lot harder than any mainline inf, as well as loss of map control due to less capping so you're gonna want to get a lot more kills than that to get them paid off. So the Brit waits for u to make a mistake and, bam, sniper dies.

With bolster, brits can just camp hard at the VPs and wait for you to make a mistake and wipe your squad with overwhelming firepower from brenned up 5mans. While it's almost impossible to punish the sections cuz they're ridiculously sturdy and rarely get squad wiped.

There is literally zero excuses for a Brit player to lose a 5man section within the first 25 minutes due to their tankiness. It's incredibly hard to get a wipe on bolstered sections.

Is FHT worth it anymore vs Brits? I used to get them due to no snares, but imo there's just too many units that can threaten it now. Sure there's no denying the shock value even after all its nerfs, but is it worth 90 munis against brits?

After giving sappers snares, the section faces less light vehicles which is basically a buff to their performance, but nothing was taken in return.

From the Commander preview:

6 Pounder ATG
With Sappers being equipped with anti-vehicle snares, the 6 Pounder no longer requires its bonus against light vehicles.
-Bonus accuracy of+50% removed against light vehicles.

Is FHT worth it anymore vs Brits? I used to get them due to no snares, but imo there's just too many units that can threaten it now. Sure there's no denying the shock value even after all its nerfs, but is it worth 90 munis against brits?

If a singular squad with snare suddenly crosses a unit from you to use, then problem is you.
If what you say was even remotely valid excuse, no one would ever build luchs or T-70.

If a singular squad with snare suddenly crosses a unit from you to use, then problem is you.
If what you say was even remotely valid excuse, no one would ever build luchs or T-70.

Even before the snare, the AEC was already threatening enough, then piats realized that they could hit more than medium and heavy armor, and now the snare. I won't put all the blame on the snare, but I'm just gonna say that it's getting harder and harder to use the FHT vs Brits. The only relief (if u can call it that) is that the 6pdr apparently no longer hits lights at 100% accuracy at max range and probably still hits them at 75% accuracy which is still fairly reliable, a percentage axis players wouldn't want to gamble with.

And Ost vehicles can't be compared to the other factions for obvious reasons. Which is why I didn't wonder why the Luchs isn't viable because it has the health and speed to escape AEC & 6pdr.

Is FHT worth it anymore vs Brits? I used to get them due to no snares, but imo there's just too many units that can threaten it now. Sure there's no denying the shock value even after all its nerfs, but is it worth 90 munis against brits?

Snares are not a reason not to get a FHT IMO, Royal Engineers don't have oorah and the snare only has medium range. The real danger is the AEC. If you get the FHT first, you're temporarily extra vulnerable to the AEC with only fausts and hopefully a 222 to defend it. If the AEC outmaneuvers the fausts, the FHT and 222 are in serious danger.

You can get another 222 after that, but the Brit player can punish that overinvestment in light vehicles by getting a Valentine, which wouldn't be far off. I'd recommend a pak instead.

If you're able to make use of the FHT while being able to fend off the AEC and stay prepared for a second AEC or Valentine, I'd say it's definitely worth it. There's more risk involved, but the reward is better map control and possibly a wipe or two.

Guys, I know you want easy wins, but IS balance is not to blame. Yes, they can be stronger than your cheaper infantry for the first few minutes of the game. For that IS pays the price of having the worse moving accuracy of all mainline inf and being the only mainline without a snare.

If you'd ever decide to give brits a go - you will encounter a very pleasant phenomenon mid game, when a cheaper up-gunned squad of volks can just run up to your bolstered five man squad in heavy cover and win the engagement.

As per sapper snare balance - the at gun has been nerfed accordingly while most other factions got a buff one way or another, so nothing to cry about here either.

I wouldnt mind the reinforce costs.
But otherwise as long as OKW gets sturms that trash everything and Volks in their current state, no.

What was the reasoning for sturms to be like they are and get free one at the start again by the way since theres no real reduced resources anymore by the way?

Also dont Tommies have a debuff when out of cover and normal when in cover since they nerfed the cover buffs?
You are also getting good PG buffs alongside other goodies, Ostheer doesnt need to be a Tier-SS+ terminator faction

The starting unit is not free - that's a common misconception of players who have only ever played Allies. The sturms' cost is deducted from the starting manpower. OKW gets an extra 100mp but in exchange lose a whopping 15 fuel at the start of the game.

Tommies got improved out-of-cover performance in a previous patch, iirc.

The starting unit is not free - that's a common misconception of players who have only ever played Allies. The sturms' cost is deducted from the starting manpower. OKW gets an extra 100mp but in exchange lose a whopping 15 fuel at the start of the game.

Sorry, but that's pure bullshit, the fuel part.
While starting unit is not free, 2 factions are getting compensation for high cost of initial troop and 3rd one just gets extra mp "because".
Each and every faction starting fuel is determined by the intended timing of tiering. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with starting MP and OKW, Ost and UKF pay a grand total of NOTHING for the bonus MP they get at the start, the only reason that bonus mp is there is so OKW and UKF can actually start building new unit instantly at the start instead of waiting couple of seconds for mp, ost rides of walefare at this point.

If what you are saying was even remotely true, soviets would still start with 50 fuel.

Tommies got improved out-of-cover performance in a previous patch, iirc.

Which translates to much less crippling debuff they get out of cover now.
But its still a debuff.

Guys, I know you want easy wins, but IS balance is not to blame. Yes, they can be stronger than your cheaper infantry for the first few minutes of the game. For that IS pays the price of having the worse moving accuracy of all mainline inf and being the only mainline without a snare.

If you'd ever decide to give brits a go - you will encounter a very pleasant phenomenon mid game, when a cheaper up-gunned squad of volks can just run up to your bolstered five man squad in heavy cover and win the engagement.

As per sapper snare balance - the at gun has been nerfed accordingly while most other factions got a buff one way or another, so nothing to cry about here either.

Never experienced volks being able to defeat my IS behind heavy cover.....Did you sit in the flame nade for 10 seconds? Brits tend to dominate defensive engagements with ease. My issue is always with the lack of indirect fire, making it super hard to attack enemy territory. Axis defensive positions - sandbagged volks or garrisoned HMGs are always super problematic to flush out when I play Brits. In fact, Brits is the only Allied faction which I think has a super easy time fending off OKW early aggression but conversely struggles against enemy defenses.

The starting unit is not free - that's a common misconception of players who have only ever played Allies. The sturms' cost is deducted from the starting manpower. OKW gets an extra 100mp but in exchange lose a whopping 15 fuel at the start of the game.

Tommies got improved out-of-cover performance in a previous patch, iirc.

Well katitof already quite answered this. But I am just going to add that Ostheer starts with more resources than Soviets while having better and more expensive starting unit. So I wonder where they are deducted from?

Well katitof already quite answered this. But I am just going to add that Ostheer starts with more resources than Soviets while having better and more expensive starting unit. So I wonder where they are deducted from?

Should be fixed to soviet levels, maybe even lower to account for the better units. Maybe start a pol?

Well katitof already quite answered this. But I am just going to add that Ostheer starts with more resources than Soviets while having better and more expensive starting unit. So I wonder where they are deducted from?

And since we're already going there Ost can also field an mg42 and gren for cheaper and quicker than the Soviet can get a maxim and con squad out despite it being no contest which is better

Sorry, but that's pure bullshit, the fuel part.
While starting unit is not free, 2 factions are getting compensation for high cost of initial troop and 3rd one just gets extra mp "because".
Each and every faction starting fuel is determined by the intended timing of tiering. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with starting MP and OKW, Ost and UKF pay a grand total of NOTHING for the bonus MP they get at the start, the only reason that bonus mp is there is so OKW and UKF can actually start building new unit instantly at the start instead of waiting couple of seconds for mp, ost rides of walefare at this point.

If what you are saying was even remotely true, soviets would still start with 50 fuel.


Which translates to much less crippling debuff they get out of cover now.
But its still a debuff.

OKW get extra 100 manpower since a year and half only because they added manpower cost to trucks. Imo this extra 100 manpower is the root cause of balance issue we have today allowing OKW to field one extra unit early on and forced every allied faction to cheese hard early game with M3/UC/WC51.
Removing it would help rebalance the game a lot without powercreeping every faction.

And since we're already going there Ost can also field an mg42 and gren for cheaper and quicker than the Soviet can get a maxim and con squad out despite it being no contest which is better

Thats insane... maybe raise cost by 50mp for both? Or cut perfomance to maxim/conscript?

OKW get extra 100 manpower since a year and half only because they added manpower cost to trucks. Imo this extra 100 manpower is the root cause of balance issue we have today allowing OKW to field one extra unit early on and forced every allied faction to cheese hard early game with M3/UC/WC51.
Removing it would help rebalance the game a lot without powercreeping every faction.

No, the truck cost is there to put mp cost of OKW teching in line with all other factions teching.
It literally is there because of sturmpios cost taking away enough from starting mp pool that it would prevent volks from being built straight away.

No, the truck cost is there to put mp cost of OKW teching in line with all other factions teching.
It literally is there because of sturmpios cost taking away enough from starting mp pool that it would prevent volks from being built straight away.

The extra 100 manpower they get is to compensate the manpower cost they added to trucks, can't be more clear and precise.


Let you check post 102

100 manpower added at the same time SWS Trucks became constructible. from 240 to 340. 240 was enough to build your first volks squad or kubel right off the bat.