Storm trooper rework is awful

Do you even play game? They already have that upgrade, just pick right doctrine.

Check this comment out https://www.coh2.org/topic/90412/consolidated-commander-roster-and-general-balance-changes/post/745389

I am already way ahead of you!

So you're just begging for doctrinal upgrade non-doctrinally? Very original.

Well, it that really a problem?

Even then, there is nothing that makes it so strong the G43. Rather it only used to be able to maintain range engagements on the move.

Nothing special about it. Should be non-doc. Production was not rare. Produced in similar quantities to MG42. Makes sense also.

Well, it that really a problem?

Even then, there is nothing that makes it so strong the G43. Rather it only used to be able to maintain range engagements on the move.

Nothing special about it. Should be non-doc. Production was not rare. Produced in similar quantities to MG42. Makes sense also.

There were more PPSH guns then infantry soldiers in the red army, therefore all soviet units should have stock ppsh or ppsh upgrade for all.

Your logic is as flawless as usual.

But sure, lets move LMG42 to the doctrine and put G43 instead.

Well, it that really a problem?

Even then, there is nothing that makes it so strong the G43. Rather it only used to be able to maintain range engagements on the move.

Nothing special about it. Should be non-doc. Production was not rare. Produced in similar quantities to MG42. Makes sense also.

Yeah and every squad had an SMG, a SAR, and an MG. They were also 9 men instead of 4.

I have one problem with the new storms, the tactical advance ability seems really odd combined with SMGs, reducing them to walking speed on a unit with such short range feels odd. It felt right with the assault rifles.

If they had been designed from the beginning with SMGs, I bet they wouldnt have a speed nerf in their ability.

There were more PPSH guns then infantry soldiers in the red army, therefore all soviet units should have stock ppsh or ppsh upgrade for all.

Your logic is as flawless as usual.

But sure, lets move LMG42 to the doctrine and put G43 instead.

The Doctrine for Cons getting PPSH was produced from 1941-1947, only until 1944 they were able to produce in far larger quantities. Types of box magazine had an impact on PPSH41. The more popular magaizine were the stick magazines.

Drum Magazines were not produced until 1944.


Conscripts should get the PPSH 41 with the mass maunufactured stick magainzes requiring them more often to reload in comparison to Shocktroops who got the Drum Mags. It was not until the end of the war that 55% of its army had PPSH. Still, I think it is justified to say Conscripts should get it. Limited to 3 or 4 units the PPSH for 60 ammo. Should be worse than the doctrine version. Reload should be more frequent also.

The quality and thickness of the mag contributed to its performance. Stick mag having sometimes experience problems and certain failures. Conscripts should get it but worse than the proper PPSH41 Drum mag. Makes sense.

So yeah, they should get the PPSH by default but maybe a worse version since cheaper mags were easier to build, easier to manufacture and produce in mass quantites would fit the ideal weapon for Conscripts. PPSH with stick mag.

Better Equipment were put into to stock for elite/special forces.


Now German G43

G43 was introduced 1943 which was later than PPSh productions. It was given to grenadiers in service but not as many as intended. Around 30 G43 were introduced per each company, so it would be the similar with the distribution of MG42. Roughly 10 out of 30 were scoped while the 20 were iron sights.

So to introduce upgrade for having G43 upgrade is not a bad idea. The weapon was good quality. Good quality took more time. G43 is exceptional. So it would be nice for grens to have by default another upgrade option, G43.

2 G43 options actually would be good.

1./ 60 ammo for 1 scoped G43. Similar to that of JLI but worse. Should be very accurate and take 5-6 sec per shot being always precise dealing 16 damage. Cover will RA is ignored but does not ignore green cover damage reduction. Does not shoot any faster the closer the enemy is. Loses, close and mid advantages

2./ Same as the doctrine. 60 ammo. Excel faster in close and mid ranges for 2 G43 with iron sights. Keeps movement. Improves move accuracy. Loses some long range accuracy but improve close to medium range.

This makes hell a lot of sense. It would be even more ridiculous to give every grenadier G43.

So grenadiers will have overall 3 weapon options. Can only pick 1 of the 3. Grens weapon options are 1./ "Scoped G43 (1 only) 2./ "G43 iron sights" 2 provided 3./ MG42.

This will increase style of play for grens. Varying in diversity and very situational.

SU went for mass quantities, cheaper production and cost efficient.
GER went for quality and quantity.

So this whole idea is indeed flawless. Would not make sense at all replacing MG42 with G43 btw. Did some research.

I have one problem with the new storms, the tactical advance ability seems really odd combined with SMGs, reducing them to walking speed on a unit with such short range feels odd. It felt right with the assault rifles.

If they had been designed from the beginning with SMGs, I bet they wouldnt have a speed nerf in their ability.

That ability IS designed from the beginning for SMGs.
Thompson paras have it since forever and it worked well on them and contrary to storms, paras can't just sneak up on you.

Also, the SMGs storms use are not that low range.

Well, it that really a problem?

Even then, there is nothing that makes it so strong the G43. Rather it only used to be able to maintain range engagements on the move.

Nothing special about it. Should be non-doc. Production was not rare. Produced in similar quantities to MG42. Makes sense also.

Why you would buy expensive ass storm troopers that come at 2cp instead of just making more 240mp grens that can also faust and have a long range impact detonation grenade and are cheaper to reinforce and giving them g43s and even ambush camo if you want just to be able to fight stuff at long range is beyond me.

I have one problem with the new storms, the tactical advance ability seems really odd combined with SMGs, reducing them to walking speed on a unit with such short range feels odd. It felt right with the assault rifles.

If they had been designed from the beginning with SMGs, I bet they wouldnt have a speed nerf in their ability.

If there was no speed nerf the ability would be OP as heck. Also, IIRC none of the benefits apply if the squad isn't stationary (not 100% sure about that one) so as it stands you're shooting yourself in the foot by moving anyway. It's supposed to be for when you're already at point blank or firing out of ambush, or really what it is supposed to be used for is intercepting retreating squads and wiping them, which it does extremely well. Same goes for the thompson para ability, which IIRC is exactly the same thing.

That ability IS designed from the beginning for SMGs.
Thompson paras have it since forever and it worked well on them and contrary to storms, paras can't just sneak up on you.

Also, the SMGs storms use are not that low range.

Only Thompson does not use the standard SMG profile with a big DPS that drop off at 15. The weapon is effective up to range 20-25.

Only Thompson does not use the standard SMG profile with a big DPS that drop off at 15. The weapon is effective up to range 20-25.

Don't commando stens have even shorter range than storm mp40s though? Just wondering because they're the more directly comparable smg since they are on a similar unit.

Only Thompson does not use the standard SMG profile with a big DPS that drop off at 15. The weapon is effective up to range 20-25.

And using the ability at that range against dedicated ranged squad is suicide unless they stand in red cover or something.

Application of it is the same and new MP40 profile isn't bad.

And using the ability at that range against dedicated ranged squad is suicide unless they stand in red cover or something.

Application of it is the same and new MP40 profile isn't bad.

One has little reason to start using the ability long range. The MP-40 profile is not bad it is similar to most SMG. The Profile of the Thompson thou is superior.

The difference is that the ability is far better in for Paras since:
1) It is effective at longer ranger and thus easier to wipe retreating infatry
2) The DPS drop for losing a model is far less severe

Don't commando stens have even shorter range than storm mp40s though? Just wondering because they're the more directly comparable smg since they are on a similar unit.

The sten and the MP-40 have similar profiles.
The Thompson has superior.

I am simply pointing out that tactical movement works better for paras as Brick Top claimed since the profile of the Thompson is closer to that of an assault rifle.

I am simply pointing out that tactical movement works better for paras as Brick Top claimed since the profile of the Thompson is closer to that of an assault rifle.

It doesn't necessarily work better. They get more DPS out of it yes, but the opportunities to actually use it are much less frequent. Stormtroopers can hide anywhere and catch retreating squads or ambush squads in general with maximum close range DPS using the ability. It isn't as strong on them pure DPS-wise, but they can usually use it more often and more effectively.

It doesn't necessarily work better. They get more DPS out of it yes, but the opportunities to actually use it are much less frequent. Stormtroopers can hide anywhere and catch retreating squads or ambush squads in general with maximum close range DPS using the ability. It isn't as strong on them pure DPS-wise, but they can usually use it more often and more effectively.

SMG paras and ST are used differently.

Tactical movement is a good ability, I am simply pointing out that it was design for Paras and they benefit more as Brick Top claimed.

Now if one want to talk about ambush there is little reason to compare Paras and ST. One should compare Commandos and ST.

Commandos get a grenade for more Alpha damage and speed boost (with veterancy) for ambush bonus allowing them chase to get wipes also.

One has to also point out the danger in using tactical movement, if thing go sour the penalties speed and target size remain even if one retreats.

All and all the ability is not bad but it certainly stronger when they had ST44 as Brick Top claimed.

Now if one want to talk about ambush there is little reason to compare Paras and ST. One should compare Commandos and ST.

We aren't comparing ambushes here, we are comparing the potential to use Tactical Advance effectively.

Tactical movement is a good ability, I am simply pointing out that it was design for Paras and they benefit more as Brick Top claimed.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaactually, tactical movement is a modified version of fire superiority, which is old Shocktroops vet1 ability, which basically did the same thing, except instead of increasing accuracy and damage, it increased burst length, end result and application was identical and old shock bullets disappeared from this plane of existence past 10 range.

So yes, the ability is not thompsons custom tailored, it was for short range SMGs since day 1.

I'm pretty sure Thompsons started out as close-range only SMGs before they patched their close-medium range profile in

I'm pretty sure Thompsons started out as close-range only SMGs before they patched their close-medium range profile in

And you are right about it:

Paratrooper Thompson
Range distance near from 8 to 10
Range distance mid from 16 to 19