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Soviet General Faction Changes - New cmdr mod 5.0

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22 Apr 2019, 10:16 AM
#181
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Apr 2019, 19:08 PMSurfer
Is it possible to make 7 man upgrade mutually exclusive with the ppsch/PRTS upgrade without taking 1 weapon slot? So 7 man cons would be still able to pick up lucky schreck/mg42 without ability to upgrade them with ppsch and stuff


7 men vet 3 cons with an lmg will be too powerful. Their veterancy bonuses are very strong, too strong for a picked up weapon if you give them 7 men.
22 Apr 2019, 10:20 AM
#182
avatar of Cresc

Posts: 378

it's already too good, you were right about how they are able to go against vet 3 grens.

Now they outperform whenever if they get their hand on a weapon upgrade.
Making them scale into late game is a mistake, just another cheese to work with for soviet.


22 Apr 2019, 10:49 AM
#183
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2019, 10:20 AMCresc
it's already too good, you were right about how they are able to go against vet 3 grens.

Now they outperform whenever if they get their hand on a weapon upgrade.
Making them scale into late game is a mistake, just another cheese to work with for soviet.



Alternative solution is to take away LMG from grens and STG from volks, up for that?
22 Apr 2019, 10:52 AM
#184
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2019, 10:20 AMCresc
it's already too good, you were right about how they are able to go against vet 3 grens.

Now they outperform whenever if they get their hand on a weapon upgrade.
Making them scale into late game is a mistake, just another cheese to work with for soviet.


Which is why the 7-man upgrade eats their slot.
22 Apr 2019, 10:59 AM
#185
avatar of Cresc

Posts: 378

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2019, 10:52 AMLago


Which is why the 7-man upgrade eats their slot.


I thought I saw them pick SVT rifles on momo's stream the other day?
They still got a 7th man.


jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2019, 10:49 AMKatitof

Alternative solution is to take away LMG from grens and STG from volks, up for that?



Why won't you simply admit that cons were never made to scale or compete with opposing mainline infantry?

22 Apr 2019, 11:08 AM
#186
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2019, 10:59 AMCresc

Why won't you simply admit that cons were never made to scale or compete with opposing mainline infantry?


Why won't you admit simply that mainline infantry that doesn't scale to late game and can't compete is useless and should either be buffed or removed from the game?
22 Apr 2019, 12:17 PM
#187
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

I think the balance team needs to tell us how they think conscripts should be used based on the following questions.

1) Which unit(s) should they engage in combat and be able to defeat?
2) Where do they fit in the build order.
3) What time should they hit the field.
4) What units are they competing with on the soviet roster.
5) How worth their cost are they in comparison to other mainline infantry.
22 Apr 2019, 12:47 PM
#188
avatar of Cresc

Posts: 378

You will still go penals+m3 against OKW, so whats the point?
22 Apr 2019, 12:55 PM
#189
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2019, 10:49 AMKatitof

Alternative solution is to take away LMG from grens and STG from volks, up for that?
whats green problem now ? They were always fine vs cons
22 Apr 2019, 13:00 PM
#190
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

whats green problem now ? They were always fine vs cons

They are fine up until grens get LMGs, then its one sided crub stomp. Its a thing since forever, early game is balanced, late game was the issue since day1. That's specifically why cons are getting an upgrade now.
Don't sleep during classes.
22 Apr 2019, 13:04 PM
#191
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

By ur logic nobody uses cons until this patch but we all know the famous cons spam, the only problem is stg, close range cons still wins at close
22 Apr 2019, 13:08 PM
#192
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

By ur logic nobody uses cons until this patch but we all know the famous cons spam, the only problem is stg, close range cons still wins at close


I am genuinely confused now.

Upunpgraded cons always became nuisance past 10th minute, the con spam you're talking about is for PPSH cons.

Is it obvious enough why PPSH doctrinal cos are fine, but stock, unupgraded ones not or do I have to explain that as well?

And no, cons don't win even at close range, even currently against LMG grens, one man just dies on approach and remaining ones don't stand up to grens.

There are even testing vids proving that by some axis fanboy who tried to prove how op 7th man is and accidentally posted vids of the exact opposite he tried to prove.
22 Apr 2019, 13:36 PM
#193
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2019, 12:47 PMCresc
You will still go penals+m3 against OKW, so whats the point?


If conscripts get enough combat utility, they will be used. Merging into flamethrowers, cover building and snares are all useful and lacking from penals.
22 Apr 2019, 14:29 PM
#194
avatar of Cresc

Posts: 378

I mean right now, with the 7th man upgrade, what difference does it make in the early game?
22 Apr 2019, 14:30 PM
#195
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2019, 14:29 PMCresc
I mean right now, with the 7th man upgrade, what difference does it make in the early game?


Exactly, which is why the 7th man upgrade doesn’t really change anything until T4 comes up.
22 Apr 2019, 14:45 PM
#196
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Exactly, which is why the 7th man upgrade doesn’t really change anything until T4 comes up.


Scaling.

Assault Engineers are stronger than Rifleman at the start of the game, but weaker later on. That's a major decision point: get strong infantry now, or get weaker infantry that'll be stronger later?

The new Panzerfusiliers work on similar logic: they're a weaker opening than Volks, but if you make do with them, you'll be rewarded with much better scaling than you'd get from a Volks squad.

Mixing in Conscripts has a lot of perks: they can merge into anything that's not Shocks, they can build cover your Penals can't and they can keep your flamer on the field. However, current Conscripts have awful scaling. You're not going to make the long term investment in a Con squad or two if you're going to get punished for it.

Now though, they might be appealing.



Also remember, the reinforcement cost bonus isn't just for the Conscript squad itself.

It's also for everything you merge those Conscripts into.

How does 17 MP to reinforce Guards or Penals sound?
22 Apr 2019, 15:02 PM
#197
avatar of Cresc

Posts: 378

pretty useless.
Sure they can work on maps like kholodny or vilshanka, but on maps like faymonville or arnhem?

Besides, regardless of the map you can't match-up against okw with cons, there is simply no contest.
22 Apr 2019, 15:08 PM
#198
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2019, 13:08 PMKatitof


I am genuinely confused now.

Upunpgraded cons always became nuisance past 10th minute, the con spam you're talking about is for PPSH cons.

Is it obvious enough why PPSH doctrinal cos are fine, but stock, unupgraded ones not or do I have to explain that as well?

And no, cons don't win even at close range, even currently against LMG grens, one man just dies on approach and remaining ones don't stand up to grens.

There are even testing vids proving that by some axis fanboy who tried to prove how op 7th man is and accidentally posted vids of the exact opposite he tried to prove.
i said i ok with the upgrade, I’m not ok if they still get weapon slots , at least if they don’t buff green too
22 Apr 2019, 15:12 PM
#199
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2019, 15:02 PMCresc
pretty useless.
Sure they can work on maps like kholodny or vilshanka, but on maps like faymonville or arnhem?

Besides, regardless of the map you can't match-up against okw with cons, there is simply no contest.

And that is problem with VG and not conscripts. Which in return is problem with Penals.

If one nerf VG and Penal half the problems will go away.
22 Apr 2019, 15:16 PM
#200
avatar of Bizrock

Posts: 206

Cons just needs a better throwing speed/range for molotovs and a decent Vet 1 ability. This "easy" fix just bring the game more problems like more blobs, more pathing issues and more performance issues.
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