Kubel needs changes

It absolutely sacrifices firepower. Apart from its poor damage (which I can concede is a difference of opinion) any damage it takes is not only sacrificing its firepower, but the surmpioneer's too. Every second it spends repairing it (which was double hit during the patch that nerfed their repair speed as well as increasing kubel HP and lowering Armour), is a second its not using its early superiority to push.

As you said, OKW is about an aggressive start, cant do that if your surmpioneer is buzy repairing.

On a tangent, the only late game role it has is building it and throwing it away to decap a VP or cutoff.

sturms can easily repair it whil capping, soemthing they should be doing anyways.
sturms also repair quite fast. it takes literal seconds to repair and the combo can easily take enough ground to be worth those seconds. i feel a little silly here having to explain the basics im not going to lie.
all units have down time when they take damage, infantry and vehcles. the kuble has the power to make up for that down time by being far more mobile than most things in its time and the only of such that can cap and fight.

you repair after you pushed the enemy off. its fairly basic really...

Yes, change its role seems necessary.

How many pros or anyone in general use the Kubel. It is certainly not a highlight if you have to compare to a Universal Carrier. It offers more of an aggressive start and even later on. It does cap but certainly bleeds manpower in the beginning, giving you a better aggressive play.

Kubel caps, there is really no other pros but more cons if you compare.

Take away Cap
Increase Price
Buff AI/DPS

because volks are god tier and what gains you get with the kuble arent currently worth the distance that volks will take you. thats why i want shared vet on the kuble so it can continue to serve even when its too dangerous

you shouldnt be comparing it to a UC anwyas, the UC has the same price difference as volks and penals, more than the difference between grens and tommies. the difference in price between a pak40 and a rak43. do we need to argue about which one should be leaps and bounds greater in that scenario?

kuble and bren fill different roles (despite you wanting them to fill the same) bren is a fighting vehcle, kuble is a utility vehicle that can fight. they have sturms and volks behind them, you cant have a super armoured mobile sniper behind cheap volks and powerful sturms, there needs to be some risk for the reward.

sturms can easily repair it whil capping, soemthing they should be doing anyways.
sturms also repair quite fast. it takes literal seconds to repair and the combo can easily take enough ground to be worth those seconds. i feel a little silly here having to explain the basics im not going to lie.
all units have down time when they take damage, infantry and vehcles. the kuble has the power to make up for that down time by being far more mobile than most things in its time and the only of such that can cap and fight.

you repair after you pushed the enemy off. its fairly basic really...

.

How often will you have to repair then. Every minute because it sustains a lot damage therefore requiring much time from Sturmpio to repair, it takes a lot of time. You have to keep Kubel behind when it has sustained damage, depending whether or not Sturmpio is engaging or retreating, it will take time. It could mean that you lose the aggressiveness early. So, it is not all possible as it seems.

kubel is so fine, no1 builds it. the reason for this is volks being OP.
conclusion: nerf volks!!1

kubel is so fine, no1 builds it. the reason for this is volks being OP.
conclusion: nerf volks!!1

I posted this forum on how we should deal with Volks versatility. It is quite versatile, may require some changes. Balance it out between the units Volks and Sturmpio, not Volks having everything.
"Revamp Volksgrenadiers terms of versatility OKW"
https://www.coh2.org/topic/88296/revamp-volksgrenadiers-terms-of-versatility-okw

Check it out. Hopefully you can give idea on how to deal with their versatility. Some nerfs volks.

Hopefully help improve the Kubel (change enitrely) and Luchs (improve accuracy slightly, on move particularly) for the changes.

The kubel isnt armed with a gun either, unless you are referring to its water gun.

I jest, but i have no doubt that OKW players would not object for a MP reduction and an upgrade to be actually useful in combat.

Would they object to it becoming doctrinal? I have a feeling they might.... That's kind of significant if we're gonna compare them

I posted this forum on how we should deal with Volks versatility. It is quite versatile, may require some changes. Balance it out between the units Volks and Sturmpio, not Volks having everything.
"Revamp Volksgrenadiers terms of versatility OKW"
https://www.coh2.org/topic/88296/revamp-volksgrenadiers-terms-of-versatility-okw

Check it out. Hopefully you can give idea on how to deal with their versatility. Some nerfs volks.

Hopefully help improve the Kubel (change enitrely) and Luchs (improve accuracy slightly, on move particularly) for the changes.

i feel bad now for beeing sarcastic

What other purpose does a kubel have than capping?

Would they object to it becoming doctrinal? I have a feeling they might.... That's kind of significant if we're gonna compare them

Is it? Last time i checked, doctrinal units aren't supposed to be better, they are supposed to be just a different tool that a faction doesnt have stock. Both the kubel and WC51 should have similar utility measured by damage/survivability/cost/abilities

Is it? Last time i checked, doctrinal units aren't supposed to be better, they are supposed to be just a different tool that a faction doesnt have stock. Both the kubel and WC51 should have similar utility measured by damage/survivability/cost/abilities

Not really because its not that simple as u think. For example stuka zu fuss is avalible in first truck so u can have it very fast and caliope is on cp10 they have same role but diffrent stats and of course different timing somehow stuka is better now. Sometimes stock units are better lol

Is it? Last time i checked, doctrinal units aren't supposed to be better, they are supposed to be just a different tool that a faction doesnt have stock.

Yes thats exactly right. My point being, one of these factions can pick other options and still have their car. The other one has to lock out other choices in order to get it. That doesn't mean the dodge should be better by default, it means I think this comment didnt make any sense:

Tell that to the WC51?

The wc51 costed 20 fuel before the last patch, and was on a commander that SPECIFICALLY needed to buffed because no one ever used it. The context matters, and the dodge has nothing to do with whether the kubel needs buffs

Actually, kubel can scout for mgs.

Remove HMG34 squad from OKM.
Make Kubel able to become stationary and get suppression effect. like 250s
It will have low AF armor still.
Gets some use and volks can be nerfed after this kubelbuff

Fits OKM style perfect: Its awkward its going to be an "effective" HMG, and not useful to mix with other troops/

210mp machine gun bunker. That will be well and balanced I'm sure....

maybe it can be add increasing HP option in vet 2 ?
it will be good add "suppression fire" in vet 1

other thing is fine

Remove HMG34 squad from OKM.
Make Kubel able to become stationary and get suppression effect. like 250s
It will have low AF armor still.
Gets some use and volks can be nerfed after this kubelbuff

Fits OKM style perfect: Its awkward its going to be an "effective" HMG, and not useful to mix with other troops/

u want comeback old style OKW?

People didint like that and that's changed as it is now(remove kubel suppression, volk dmg 10->12, add mp44)

I don't know why all of this has to be changed by a useless unit again

The only problem with kubel is he have bad Vet effect

u want comeback old style OKW?

People didint like that and that's changed as it is now(remove kubel suppression, volk dmg 10->12, add mp44)
...

If by people you mean you and yourself.

Kubel now its not even a meme anymore. Even USF is getting their shit together and its most likely this suggestion will never make into the game. Old kubel was a MOBILE suppression platform like current so much more used USF Flak HT, M5 Quad, Centaurs for allied. Its older design was bad because only inf was present and only kubel was able to suppress on the move, no AT to stop him. What i said is kubel has to set up and become immobile like OST 250s to get some suppression effect, its goint to require MICRO and good decision making since setting it up should take some seconds. It could have a maxim like performance to begin with

210mp machine gun bunker. That will be well and balanced I'm sure....

Its not a bunker since its paper thin armor and low hp. Besides it will have suppression its not going to be able to turn like and it could be flanked

Kubel now its not even a meme anymore. Even USF is getting their shit together and its most likely this suggestion will never make into the game. Old kubel was a MOBILE suppression platform like current so much more used USF Flak HT, M5 Quad, Centaurs for allied. Its older design was bad because only inf was present and only kubel was able to suppress on the move, no AT to stop him. What i said is kubel has to set up and become immobile like OST 250s to get some suppression effect, its goint to require MICRO and good decision making since setting it up should take some seconds. It could have a maxim like performance to begin with

I agree with what you have stated.

It should be stationary or setup before it can suppress. Mobile Suppression would make it OP, so it is a NO for that. Make it like the Wehrmacht Doctrinal Sdkfz 250 Half Track where it has to setup before it suppresses. That would be great. To actually make use of this unit rather than a useless unit which it currently is. It is hardly adaptable in many situations. Vet is a problem because of its current requirements and lacking performance. It would do fine if it performed better!

Make unit cost more to 250 manpower.
Buff it, it requires certain changes.
Remove cap.
Take Detection ability vet 1 away for Self-Repair costing 10-15 ammo instead.
The unit has to be more of a combat unit rather than scout unit which it is currently terrible at. That is what it needs. To be used more often, be made a viable choice, to serve an actual purpose.

I agree with what you have stated.

It should be stationary or setup before it can suppress. Mobile Suppression would make it OP, so it is a NO for that. Make it like the Wehrmacht Doctrinal Sdkfz 250 Half Track where it has to setup before it suppresses. That would be great. To actually make use of this unit rather than a useless unit which it currently is. It is hardly adaptable in many situations. Vet is a problem because of its current requirements and lacking performance. It would do fine if it performed better!

Make unit cost more to 250 manpower.
Buff it, it requires certain changes.
Remove cap.

This is LITERALLY the way it was minus the toggle (which would make it even more vulnerable, unless you want the damage reduction the 250 has as well, in which case...mobile bunker...). i think even the price of the old suppressing kuble was 250....

to serve an actual purpose.

like early map control, synergy with sturms and map hax?
just because its purpose isnt what you want doesnt mean it doesnt have a purpose. it HAS a purpose, a unique purpose tailored to the unique faction. not everything in the okw lineup needs to be able to 1v1 their counterparts. like seriously, how is anyone going to stand against a combined sturmpio and kubledragon that you guys want? its a support/utility vehicle not a minute 0 KT.

Is this wc-51 that comes unarmed and needs 45mu to get a gun? Are we talking about the same one? The wc51 that unlike any other LV in the game now that doesn't have a weapon unless you buy it? Is that the WC-51 you are talking about? Just want to make sure we're clear that you are INDEED talking about the WC-51 that can cap, but spawns without a gun of any sort.

he compared it with the WC 51 which can carry a full squad which can shot out of it while driving...has a 4model close combat crew inclusive and can be upgraded with a MG.

now lets talk about the kubel...which will lose ANY fight ...even vs rear echelons. and it can cap.
not more..no more upgrade for muni, no squad inside etc...it has a turnspeed from a p4 and has armor like a gocart....