[POLL] Double Panzershreck for Sturm + AT Fussie

Given the upcoming commanders we are at a break point. Despite community voted AGAINST a tank hunter doctrine for OKW, the new patch will still stuff in okw commander a shreck squad no matter what.

That annihilates the chances for a proper non doc double shreck squad for OKW. And i think Sturm should actually get those double shrecks.

Instead Fussies could get a panzerbushe 39 upgrade, at rifles like penals or guards ptrs41. It would solve the "must start as a 5 men squad" issue as well.

Counter arguments frequently used, so we don't waste time

- "Okw doesn't need double shreck"

Yes, it does. The only reason why it is not affected by lacking reliable at infantry is the puma mech meta, which kills med hq. Without the puma, OKW has the worst atg in game and a generalist mine to counter light vehicles. Litterally the same as saying "cons don't need a buff because there's penals"

- "Shreck blobs"

Nothing hints that it will happen, it doesn't happen with Panzergrens that have a much better stg dps curve.

Personally I am against panzerbushe 39 but I would test a Panzerfaust as weapon and not snare. It could be modeled after bazooka and I would add the option to put it away.

I'm fine with fusis getting an AT rifle. Seems preferable to a shreck blob.

I'm not a fan of giving Sturmpios a double shreck upgrade, entirely because thay are so good in the early game, especially on city maps.

They're already a starting unit that beats down most other mainline infantry unless RNG tosses a model early. I don't want to further encourage heavy sturmpio starts by allowing them a late game switch to heavy AT duties once more mainline infantry has arrived.

I don't see any use at all for OKW Panzerbüchse when they already get the T0 Raketten, the single Schreck deterrent on Sturmpioneers and the Puma.

OKW has no need for early-mid game softcounter AT; what they need is late game hardcounter AT that isn't vehicle-based to go after the Allied TD walls.


Plus, you keep saying "the community voted against anti-tank" when it was the only poll that was super close. 47-49% of the community did want anti-tank.

I don't see any use at all for OKW Panzerbüchse when they already get the T0 Raketten, the single Schreck deterrent on Sturmpioneers and the Puma.

OKW has no need for early-mid game softcounter AT; what they need is late game hardcounter AT that isn't vehicle-based to go after the Allied TD walls.


Plus, you keep saying "the community voted against anti-tank" when it was the only poll that was super close. 47-49% of the community did want anti-tank.

"T0 Raketten, the single Schreck deterrent on Sturmpioneers and the Puma."

So a mixture of bad tools and the vehicle that i already explained to be the OKW only choice exactly because of lacking other at choices.

Ostheer has pak and teller mines. Has also double shreck and 222. Usf has zooks, stuart, one of the best atg for medium and light tanks, ukf has aec, piats,..

All factions have viable at infantry and multiple at options early game, okw mech is meta because the only viable option is puma. Considering the predominance of mech, that OKW doesn't need early at options is only your (questionable) opinion.

For more, read original post

"Yes, it does. The only reason why it is not affected by lacking reliable at infantry is the puma mech meta, which kills med hq. Without the puma, OKW has the worst atg in game and a generalist mine to counter light vehicles. Litterally the same as saying "cons don't need a buff because there's penals""

How close was the poll is irrelevant, we are getting hard countering at infantry in a doctrine that is not meant to have it.

So a mixture of bad tools and the vehicle that i already explained to be the OKW only choice exactly because of lacking other at choices.

So let's throw yet another bad tool into the mix! Rejoice!

So let's throw yet another bad tool into the mix! Rejoice!

2 shreck sturm are bad now ?

We were talking about the Panzerbüchse.

I doubt anyone would want the Schrecks on their Sturms, given the value of minesweepers.

We were talking about the Panzerbüchse.

I doubt anyone would want the Schrecks on their Sturms, given the value of minesweepers.

Ehm..no, we were talking about double shrek sturm, and i wouldn't call ptrs41 bad either.

People who want to go for med hq without lacking viable light vehicles counters ?

No matter the amount of mental gymnastic, the "bad early strong mid" excuse of panzerfussie makes no sense now that the doctrine offers an ir stg upgrade. The best way to rework fussies is to make it a soft at/ai squad so it could synergize late game with Obers.

We were talking about the Panzerbüchse.

I doubt anyone would want the Schrecks on their Sturms, given the value of minesweepers.

It's not like a single shreck is worth it. Double shreck could give the incentive to make a second sturm squad for AT. It would still be cheaper than pgrens in terms of build cost, upkeep and reinforcement cost, while being on a faction that tends to float manpower.

It could also make the revamped pfusi's easier to balance.

It's not like a single shreck is worth it. Double shreck could give the incentive to make a second sturm squad for AT. It would still be cheaper than pgrens in terms of build cost, upkeep and reinforcement cost, while being on a faction that tends to float manpower.

It could also make the revamped pfusi's easier to balance.

Also, doctrine is currently providing a squad cheaper, with less bleed, more models and min 0 as well with double shreck and teller mine. Someone could argue that panzergresn higher cost is due to their better stg.

Panzergrens are currently underpowered and that's a mod team member that brought such issue to a thread.

If SP got 2x Shreck without commander ability I will sooooooo happy.....
If SP got 2 shreck,give PF AT rifle like Guards doesn't bad idea

OKW do not have late game AT problems, because they got Jagerpanzer and Panther.

The only problem is early vehicle (M3 and UC), AT rifles are more than enough for countering early vehicles.

OKW do not have late game AT problems, because they got Jagerpanzer and Panther.

Who even mentioned this ?

Who even mentioned this ?

Personal feeling.

So let's throw yet another bad tool into the mix! Rejoice!

What's bad about double Panzerschrecks? I'd take that over a Raketenwerfer early game any day.

"The only problem is early vehicle (M3 and UC)."

Which is why double sturm are the best options.
Locking out viable early at options to doctrines or mech is not ok. Brits had snare in doctrines, but they received it nondoc. Giving doctrinal viable at weapons won't fix anything but make such doctrine a must.

What's bad about double Panzerschrecks? I'd take that over a Raketenwerfer early game any day.

I was talking about putting Panzerbüchse on Panzerfusiliers.

I was talking about putting Panzerbüchse on Panzerfusiliers.

It's not useless if you give it Button.

Sturms dont deserve nor need it. OKW has t0 AT that counters any light play. Sturms also beat any infantry for 5 mins into the game or more as theyre intended to but now u want to just switch them over and be more useful lategame as AT. CE or pios dont have these uses except as a glorified wet papermass flamethrower squads. U have puma too and it locking out med is no argument. T1 locks soviets out of t2 unless u wanna spend even more time backteching for overpriced AT guns.1 Shreck is enough to deter light vehicle play just like Penal PTSR and u have other tools on them already like sweepers and repairs and being able to contest mainlines later on or burst lower tiers down. Not to forget all the buildings. And stop comparing apples to oranges you have the best engineers in the game that are dominant sealclubbers. OKW is powerful and oppressive as is we sure dont need shreckblobs with those volk blobs too alongside stock KT's and good armor in general. Not in team games.