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russian armor

Zis Barrage is broken !

28 Mar 2019, 13:40 PM
#1
avatar of Exterior Reptile

Posts: 94

Permanently Banned
I keep seeing the Zis being sent in front of an mg42 or mortar squad and start firing its barrage forcing that unit to retreat. The way its being used like that reminds me of the maxim at the beginning of the game.

Back then you could send it into the fog of war, find a deployed mg42 and manage to suppress it first. That was bad game play and I kind of see a similar thing happening with the Zis where it's being sent solo to take down a deployed support unit.

This makes me wonder what was the developers' original purpose for the barrage ability? Do they consider what I describe above proper and balanced role for this ability?
28 Mar 2019, 13:45 PM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Kudos for someone who uses it that way and it actually works and no points for you for leaving abandoned HMGs without any support somewhere on field.
28 Mar 2019, 13:47 PM
#3
avatar of Exterior Reptile

Posts: 94

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 13:45 PMKatitof
Kudos for someone who uses it that way and it actually works and no points for you for leaving abandoned HMGs without any support somewhere on field.


You're biased

Pak cost the same, has the same penetration, isn' superted by terminantors, has 2 squad members less and doesn't have barrage that hardcounters allied team weapon play.

Yet its completely balanced.


When A >> B and B is balanced, then A must be overperforming
28 Mar 2019, 13:52 PM
#4
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



You're biased

Pak cost the same, has the same penetration, isn' superted by terminantors, has 2 squad members less and doesn't have barrage that hardcounters allied team weapon play.

Yet its completely balanced.


When A >> B and B is balanced, then A must be overperforming

....

PaK has higher penetration and faster rate of fire, grens roflstomp cons, number of entities is irrelevant here, 6 men are soviet faction perk, there isn't need to hardcounter allied team weapon play, because there is no such thing as allied team weapon play after maxim was killed for good.

PaK is much better at dealing with tanks, ZiS can engage AFK infantry.

Before calling someone biased make sure you're not an ignorant noob yourself.
28 Mar 2019, 14:59 PM
#5
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 957

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 13:52 PMKatitof

....

PaK has higher penetration and faster rate of fire, grens roflstomp cons, number of entities is irrelevant here, 6 men are soviet faction perk, there isn't need to hardcounter allied team weapon play, because there is no such thing as allied team weapon play after maxim was killed for good.

PaK is much better at dealing with tanks, ZiS can engage AFK infantry.

Before calling someone biased make sure you're not an ignorant noob yourself.

+1 (except for the attitude) :D
28 Mar 2019, 15:03 PM
#6
avatar of Exterior Reptile

Posts: 94

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 13:52 PMKatitof

....

PaK has higher penetration and faster rate of fire, grens roflstomp cons, number of entities is irrelevant here, 6 men are soviet faction perk, there isn't need to hardcounter allied team weapon play, because there is no such thing as allied team weapon play after maxim was killed for good.

PaK is much better at dealing with tanks, ZiS can engage AFK infantry.

Before calling someone biased make sure you're not an ignorant noob yourself.



Better rate of fire only means it misses more often.


Accuracy is what makes weapons strong
28 Mar 2019, 15:08 PM
#7
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8




Better rate of fire only means it misses more often.


Accuracy is what makes weapons strong

They have the exact same accuracy.
28 Mar 2019, 15:10 PM
#8
avatar of Exterior Reptile

Posts: 94

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 15:08 PMKatitof

They have the exact same accuracy.



So in the same time Zis misses misses far less shots than a pak.

You just proved ito yourself.

28 Mar 2019, 15:15 PM
#9
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

I find your denial of stats and mechanics absolutely amusing.
28 Mar 2019, 15:37 PM
#10
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

Wow reading this hurts.

So according to Exterior Reptile: Unit A has same accuracy but higher ROF as Unit B. Therefore Unit B is better because Unit A misses more often.


200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 IQ
28 Mar 2019, 16:16 PM
#11
avatar of Antemurale
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 951

When pointing out logical inconsistencies and/or expressing disagreement, please refrain from flaming the other person.

You have been warned.
28 Mar 2019, 17:35 PM
#12
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

lol its 60 muni plus risking an AT gun for flanks.
28 Mar 2019, 19:22 PM
#14
avatar of Taksin02

Posts: 148

lol its 60 muni plus risking an AT gun for flanks.


35 Now
Sometime I rather build ZIS than a mortar because its fire faster and more accurate to force enemy MG out of the building.
28 Mar 2019, 19:29 PM
#15
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289



35 Now
Sometime I rather build ZIS than a mortar because its fire faster and more accurate to force enemy MG out of the building.


+1 the 82mm mortar rarely are able to force off a team weapon. It misses often.
28 Mar 2019, 19:50 PM
#16
avatar of Bizrock

Posts: 206

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 13:52 PMKatitof

....

PaK has higher penetration and faster rate of fire, grens roflstomp cons, number of entities is irrelevant here, 6 men are soviet faction perk, there isn't need to hardcounter allied team weapon play, because there is no such thing as allied team weapon play after maxim was killed for good.

PaK is much better at dealing with tanks, ZiS can engage AFK infantry.

Before calling someone biased make sure you're not an ignorant noob yourself.


This resumes the topic.
28 Mar 2019, 20:04 PM
#17
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 563



+1 the 82mm mortar rarely are able to force off a team weapon. It misses often.


Zis barrage is also great to just bust houses in general
28 Mar 2019, 20:12 PM
#18
avatar of Gooby

Posts: 2

When pointing out logical inconsistencies and/or expressing disagreement, please refrain from flaming the other person.

You have been warned.


[OFF-TOPIC]
Just a wild though: Aforementioned causes frustration, which leads to these outbursts on bad moments, which leads to warnings, which leads to bans.

Would it be sensible to use same penalization on apparent use of illogicality for whatever reason; e.x: the case on hand.

Penalizing only the symptoms is easier, I give that, but I don't think it'd be terribly hard to penalize the root problem - too.
28 Mar 2019, 21:38 PM
#19
avatar of DerKuhlmann

Posts: 469

Sad part about Zis gun, is when rng hits right and you two shot a vetted mg32 team
28 Mar 2019, 21:40 PM
#20
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1




So in the same time Zis misses misses far less shots than a pak.

You just proved ito yourself.



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