It's fine as it is. Mobile artillery is meant to counter static team weapons and emplacements not the other way around.
Both 17th Pounder and JagerTiger are fine as theyou are and serve different roles.
Do not fix what ain't broken
17 Pounder vs Jagdtiger
28 Mar 2019, 16:09 PM
#21
Posts: 94
Permanently Banned
At least I'm not doing everything in my power to pretend a good unit is bad.
28 Mar 2019, 16:31 PM
#22
Posts: 1527
Permanently BannedNot sure why u think a stock 17 pdr deserves to be a counter to a doctrinal super heavy.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
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28 Mar 2019, 16:52 PM
#23
Posts: 911
Ummmm... It is the single best counter to emplacements in the game bar zeroing artillery. Yes brace negates a portion of damage first time round but you should be either using the stuka to force a brace and then push for a kill with an incendiary nade or panzerschreks. Or attack it and force them to brace and then stuka them when they are on cooldown. Regardless, OKW have plenty of options. Any attack without follow up rightly is less rewarding, as is true throughout this game. Thus when using a stuka you should have some follow up. If it's really that much of an issue, just build a second stuka and the 17 pdr is dead every time.
Or you play against a competent player who hears the stuka coming, doesnt brace because it doesnt do a significant amount of damage due to its linear spread, and just repairs with engies. You have spent 100 fuel to not counter a cheaper unit, Congratulations you have played yourself.
Imagine my playercard is here
28 Mar 2019, 17:31 PM
#24
Posts: 1096
As another user would say "apples and oranges"
They both look like apples to me.
28 Mar 2019, 17:34 PM
#25
Posts: 1484
I wonder if the Pak (big gun) can be countered by ISU?
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28 Mar 2019, 17:35 PM
#26
Posts: 184
I wonder if the Pak (big gun) can be countered by ISU?
if ISU has line of sight, then yes, unless RNG screws the ISU up.
28 Mar 2019, 17:44 PM
#27
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I wonder if the Pak (big gun) can be countered by ISU?
It can be countered by AVRE that can one shoot it.
They both look like apples to me.
You are entitled to have the opinion that a Heavy doctrinal TD is in the same category with a stock emplacement.
28 Mar 2019, 18:20 PM
#28
Posts: 94
Permanently BannedI wonder if the Pak (big gun) can be countered by ISU?
ISU152 is multipurpose assault gun whereas jagtiger is self-propelled artillery / anti-tank gun.
Please do not compare the incomparable next time
At least I'm not doing everything in my power to pretend a good unit is bad.
28 Mar 2019, 18:57 PM
#29
Posts: 220
Or you play against a competent player who hears the stuka coming, doesnt brace because it doesnt do a significant amount of damage due to its linear spread, and just repairs with engies. You have spent 100 fuel to not counter a cheaper unit, Congratulations you have played yourself.
Firstly, a well placed stuka can outright kill a 17 pdr from max health but besides that.
Again, you clearly have no follow up to your attacks, if they dont brace, its low enough health to kill, if they do you can push it. It's really not difficult. There's a reason emplacements are exceedingly rarely used in high tier gameplay.
Sim city is one of the easiest strats to counter providing you haven't already picked commanders incapable of doing so, so if you can counter sim city, you can counter 1 17 pdr emplacement... Even without the Jagdtiger.
I wonder if the Pak (big gun) can be countered by ISU?
The PaK43 can fire through buildings for free so can be built to safely be able to fight units such as the ISU. The 17 pdr cannot unless you pay 100 munitions every time you want to fire it.
28 Mar 2019, 19:05 PM
#30
Posts: 220
Can I just say I think people are missing the point here, this isn't really about buffing the 17 pdr or nerfing the Jagdtiger. Buffing the range of the 17 pdr (or nerfing the other etc.) is just the solution to the problem. It's about the fact that the 17 pdr is not working as intended. They currently have the same range stats (80) but don't function as such.
Balance aside, this is an exploit/bug by the Jagdtiger interacting with the 17 pdr (usually using attack ground) which therefore needs to be fixed.
This isn't an intended feature guys.
Balance aside, this is an exploit/bug by the Jagdtiger interacting with the 17 pdr (usually using attack ground) which therefore needs to be fixed.
This isn't an intended feature guys.
28 Mar 2019, 19:08 PM
#31
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Can I just say I think people are missing the point here, this isn't really about buffing the 17 pdr or nerfing the Jagdtiger. Buffing the range of the 17 pdr (or nerfing the other etc.) is just the solution to the problem. It's about the fact that the 17 pdr is not working as intended. They currently have the same range but don't function as such.
Balance aside, this is an exploit/bug by the Jagdtiger interacting with the 17 pdr (usually using attack ground) which therefore needs to be fixed.
This isn't an intended feature guys.
I would suggest the following, next time a vehicle fire beyond the range of your atg simply aim and attack ground. ATG shots have a good chance to scatter and collide with your intended target.
This is not a balance issue.
28 Mar 2019, 19:11 PM
#32
Posts: 220
I would suggest the following, next time a vehicle fire beyond the range of your atg simply aim and attack ground. ATG shots have a good chance to scatter and collide with your intended target.
I have, that sometimes works, however the 17 pdr when attacking ground basically shoots any point on the ground in front of it when you do that and virtually never hits anything. The Jagdtiger however, I assume due to it's height, hits virtually every time and also the 17 pdr is so large it can't really miss either.
Basically if you're lucky you get 1 hit, it basically makes no difference.
28 Mar 2019, 20:07 PM
#33
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
78? What a stupid fucking value... I thought it was it was 85?
It was, till it caused problems outranging the 17pdr. Then lowered to 78 same patch as it got 320 -> 300 damage.
28 Mar 2019, 20:16 PM
#34
Posts: 4474
u sure ? cruzz stats says 80
It was, till it caused problems outranging the 17pdr. Then lowered to 78 same patch as it got 320->300 damage.
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
28 Mar 2019, 20:35 PM
#35
Posts: 5279
It was, till it caused problems outranging the 17pdr. Then lowered to 78 same patch as it got 320->300 damage.
So if it was changed specifically because it was out ranging the 17lb why is there all this push back over what would ess2then be a bug fix?
#stalinwept
28 Mar 2019, 20:37 PM
#36
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
u sure ? cruzz stats says 80
My bad it is 80. I must be thinking of canceled FBP from 2017.
So if it was changed specifically because it was out ranging the 17lb why is there all this push back over what would ess2then be a bug fix?
^^ So they have the same range, but the shell start point of the 17 starts farther back which allows the 17 to be outranged.
28 Mar 2019, 20:43 PM
#37
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Not sure why u think a stock 17 pdr deserves to be a counter to a doctrinal super heavy.
Not sure why you think super heavy, fuel costing anti tank gun should NOT be counter to any vehicle engaging frontally that isn't actual arty piece.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Mar 2019, 20:49 PM
#38
Posts: 1527
Permanently Banned
Not sure why you think super heavy, fuel costing anti tank gun should NOT be counter to any vehicle engaging frontally that isn't actual arty piece.
"Fuel costing" at gun. LOL. Compare that with the fuel cost of a Jagdtiger. Meanwhile u say if a 240/60 gren is EVEN REMOTELY similar in performance to 280/120 rifles, it's unacceptable. LOL
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28 Mar 2019, 20:50 PM
#39
Posts: 4474
btw im quite sure u can attack ground at the JT to still hit it
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
28 Mar 2019, 21:15 PM
#40
Posts: 220
btw im quite sure u can attack ground at the JT to still hit it
You can but it doesn't work very well at all, it scatters into the ground mostly whereas the jagdtiger hits every time.
"Fuel costing" at gun. LOL. Compare that with the fuel cost of a Jagdtiger. Meanwhile u say if a 240/60 gren is EVEN REMOTELY similar in performance to 280/120 rifles, it's unacceptable. LOL
Dude, it's an Anti-tank gun, and the Jagdtiger is a tank, or is at least tankesque. Good balance is that an anti armour unit shouldn't really be counterable by armour, just as the Jagdtiger, an anti armour unit, isn't really counterable by armour unless you use it wrong.
I don't think that's asking for much. Like I said before, OKW have plentiful counters to the 17 pdr anyway. Whereas UKF have very few counters to the Jagdtiger. It wouldn't even be a counter, they'd be more or less even.
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