Revamp Volksgrenadiers terms of versatility OKW

I have an idea for different teching for infantry units for OKW. Restructure OKW units for balancing purposes.

Change Volks particularly and maybe Sturmpio.

From 5 models to 4 models by default.
Infantry base damage Karbine98 increased from 12 to 16 damage.
Have also a "**infantry bolster squad**" package available for OKW like UKF in order to increase model size, same price or more, depends.
Weapon upgrade instead is MP40, take away STG package.
Take fire grenade away for a normal grenade by default. Make it more of an AI or one kind of unit instead of versatile both kind of unit.
Take away Sandbags build for Volks, Sturmpios should have it instead if necessary.
Kar98 long or MP40 short range focus options.

Volks with **Kar98**, similar to Tommies, should cost if changed to that way to 280 manpower. Like Tommies, when behind cover, get instead accuracy boost, decrease rate of fire, faster reload, to make it more interesting. Should have similar stats to Tommies. Get one normal Steilhandgranate like what Panzerfusiliers have. Maybe should have upgrade for longer range MG34 to make it more accessible, MG34 should be available when you have either Mechanized base or Panzer Korp base. SHOULD HAVE PANZERFAUST for long ranged unit.

Volks with **upgrade MP40**, they still get behind cover boost but instead of the Steilhandgranate get the Fire grenade, makes sense since they are to be more aggressive. No smoke grenade since it would be too OP. Package should cost 60 ammo max. SHOULD NOT HAVE PANZERFAUST for short range unit.

The only unit that would have STGs is Sturmpio, can increase model to 5 man squad also which would be costy for them still, compensated. Have to make a grenade at least available to them, do not know exactly which, maybe stun grenade available only when Vet1 or something else. It is fair since Volks in reality were not all deadly or experienced or that versatile as they seem in game. They did in reality have short range firepower, so I think it would better for them if they only got MP40 package as an option instead. Sounds great right.


**SO in this sense it wont make Volks a such a versatile unit**.

You have a choice between upgraded MP40 for Flame nade for aggressive push AI purposes
or
Default K98 long range for a Panzerfaust.


What you guys think about this for a balance or change?

I think its interesting to revamp volksvagens but:
I dont like the bolster mechanic in every axis soldier, its being copy/pasted in any unit now.
I dont like sturmpios sbags. They have so little time to loose.
I dont like Volks "behind cover" buff, neither on Ostruppen.

Apart from that, MP40 could be even stock on volks, upgrade them to kars98 and sbags and faust. It would be a "tactical downgrade" since MP40 cant hold lategame as good as kars98 do. And makes everyone happy (OKM still weak to LVs early, no free fausts)
Flamenade IMHO must be docrinal behind feuerstrum (I love it but it doesnt make too much sense being stock)

Flamenade IMHO must be docrinal behind feuerstrum (I love it but it doesnt make too much sense being stock)

They got it in the first place because without it they're screwed against garrisons.

Same reason USF got a T0 mortar.

What you guys think about this for a balance or change?

That such changes are trying to solve a nonexistant problem and are over complicated.

Also mp40s are a terrible upgrade as it currently exists, so propagating it as a thing is also bad.

I actually prefer the MP-40 upgrade to the ST44, although it sucks for a number reasons.

Primarily because it would open they way to reduce the early power level of allied infatry.

In addition one would only upgrade few of his squads mainly do defend from charging infatry.

Weapon could be redesigned to be better than other SMG when static.

volks are fine there flame nades help them to win engagements

Remove flame nades
Remove self healing for the main line infantry

They got it in the first place because without it they're screwed against garrisons.

Same reason USF got a T0 mortar.

Maybe OKM will need another "weakness" in early game tho (Not because i want to, but general hate towards OKM from the forum community)

They got it in the first place because without it they're screwed against garrisons.

Same reason USF got a T0 mortar.

Could be on sturms. Then it's not on every single squad you have on the field and the price of sturms could also justify the range and speed of the throw and even being unlocked without a truck. Sturms should be made a bit cheaper regardless of course but there's nothing wrong with the ability,, just its carrier. Hell moving it from volks might even be enough of a nerf that they don't need any other changes since the power to instantly flush cover and mow down the reposition troops with STGs is where a bulk of their power comes from. At least sturms are costly and vulnerable.

It needs changes because it is the worst unit against UKF especially against Tommies.

I am not asking for buffs for this unit currently. It needs certain adjustments, because its versatility is what makes this unit a piece of crap at the end of the day.

If Obersoldaten could come earlier like become accessible once you build a base, that would be just fine. This would fix the issues. It is already quite costy, therefore it should come a little earlier.

I think maybe some of you would think of this as a terrible idea but the thing is, OKW is a Light Vehicle meta, that has vehicles which performs worse overall, lacks AI choices even.

FHT is good but gets countered easily. Best strategy would be is to use it as a support unit. Pros do not use it because of that fact.

Luchs which many pros use, because there is not much choice and it lacks performance. It is not that good, needs certain adjustments, needs to perform better against Infantry, increase its DPS slightly, currently it is not that good, SHOULD NOT BE LIKE AS IT WAS BEFORE.

If I compare Osteehr. I think they are more balanced in many more certain situations. They have better support weapons AI vehicle choices, although Ostwind is not that good but certainly a better choice than Luchs and FHT combined.

It needs to have proper AI options because all they are good at only is AT. Even then Wehrmacht does better in AT and AI than OKW overall.

It is good against SU and USF but terrible against UKF. I just implemented my initial idea as a way to fix the issues between all the other factions. It needs to be balanced.

Against UKF, OKW just takes too much manpower losses if played properly. Vehicles are not at all good at countering Brits. Luchs is simply bad against Infantry compared to M20 Utility Car (Cheaper) , AEC (same DPS against Infantry and good against AT), T70 and other vehicle options, no matter how much cheaper or expensive, does better than Luchs overall.

I play this game a lot, so I know what I am talking about. Trying to give a balanced opinion over this delicate situation.

List of units that under perform to certain degree:

1./ MG34 is terrible against Tommies, surpression takes longer time espeically against other factions. The MG is the worst, does least damage, although has bigger ARC, there is no real benefits

2./ Kubelwagen, it is optional but is a derelict unit. The only unit I game I only see as a unit not meant to last. SU scout car can even be used if handled correctly till mid late game if possible, worked out for me. Kubel is trash. Vet speed being the slowest, why? BUFF AI would not be a problem for me and remove cap zones if necessary. It needs to serve more purpose, currently does not. It is rarely used.

3./ Raketenwerfer, not that it underperforms, just annoying for both sides. Needs adjustments, take camo away and other implementions that I have mentioned on this forum https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/245698/okw-raketenwerfer-performance/p5 the comment n.133. Just some ideas for better balancing, revamp.

4./ Leig18, has the worst AOE, if you play in game, you will definitely see a difference between any other mortar. Its range is not superior but is slightly better but at cost of having the least AOE, needs adjustments because it cant retreat. If you compare USF howizter which is more expensive has similiar range, it has the most devastating firepower in game, can damage vehicles even.

5./ Volks, the issue is, the versatility is what makes this unit underperform in terms of AI, great as AT but OKW needs proper AI options which it does not really have. The first post on of this discussion I believe would be nice changes to Volks. Either a choices between more AI.

6./ Sturmpios, although they come as the first unit in game, volks should be instead for a nerf in early gameplay instead for changing their overall performances for both volks and sturmpios in later game, for some adjustments. It drops like flies, can not be currently used properly, it is not that good a unit. Shines for a tiny while but becomes a useless combat unit later. That is why everyone takes volks instead.

7./ Obers, are great, just comes too late. Should come earlier if none of these options are adjusted or some of them. It is already a big deal when buying the unit because they do not excel when you purchase them. They start off with Kar98, can upgrade to MG34. They should be available in the accessible in HQ only when you build after your first base.


OKW needs some changes here and there to make it more balanced instead for taking Osteehr instead which seems to do better than OKW overall.

I just hope the next patch would include some fixes.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/401569231?t=

Here is the video
1st Match 20:34 to 43:56
2nd Match 47:30 to 01:05:15
3rd Match 01:08:30 to 01:43:45

VonIvan (OKW) vs Kimbo (UKF). You can clearly see who has the upper hand. Lack of proper AI choices for OKW.

Posted this forum for "Either change OKW or UKF" https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/245845/either-change-okw-or-ukf

Sorry that there is a lot of information. I believe changes are required in order to makes this game better.

LUL

Okm need no changes imo

Okm need no changes imo

why? It has upper hand vs SU and USF but is bad against UKF. It should be made more balanced across all factions, make some units to actually serve a purpose, the ones mentioned. Kubel, Luchs, MG34, Leig18 specifically do underperform. Is that not an issue?

why? It has upper hand vs SU and USF but is bad against UKF. It should be made more balanced across all factions, make some units to actually serve a purpose, the ones mentioned. Kubel, Luchs, MG34, Leig18 specifically do underperform. Is that not an issue?

none of the units you mentioned does underperform, no

none of the units you mentioned does underperform, no

Just because you say so?

For example, how can you say the Kubel under performs when the wc51 for 10 manpower less can transport units, cap, upgrade to have a gun that has more dps and range (and can suppress can it not?), has more Armour, has mark target and can call in artillery?

Just because you say so?

For example, how can you say the Kubel under performs when the wc51 for 10 manpower less can transport units, cap, upgrade to have a gun that has more dps and range (and can suppress can it not?), has more Armour, has mark target and can call in artillery?

probably cuz

1) it is doctrinal,
2) it doesnt spawn with any GUN and
3) Kubel gets free maphack at vet 1

Kubel is bad, it is just that simple. DPS is bad, for a vehicle that should serve against AI which it hardly does.

Take T70, it is a great vehicle, can cap and recon vet 1. That is way better overall.

So Kubel should do better than it currently does because it hardly does much damage. Nobody gets vet 3 or above, it is impossible. Vet issues with OKW because it is impossible and takes forever.

Luchs, Kubel, Sturmpio, Rak, MG34 vet too slow. Other factions although limited to vet3 are better off since they get it earlier.

Vet 5 does not matter if it is impossible to achieve it for any of these classes

Kubel is bad, it is just that simple. DPS is bad, for a vehicle that should serve against AI which it hardly does.

Take T70, it is a great vehicle, can cap and recon vet 1. That is way better overall.

So Kubel should do better than it currently does because it hardly does much damage. Nobody gets vet 3 or above, it is impossible. Vet issues with OKW because it is impossible and takes forever.

Luchs, Kubel, Sturmpio, Rak, MG34 vet too slow. Other factions although limited to vet3 are better off since they get it earlier.

Vet 5 does not matter if it is impossible to achieve it for any of these classes

Kubel its not bad, you are missusing it
Kubel is a recon support cap vehicle, nothing more.
There was a time that kubelswarms were meme and fun, thats why its "nerfed" into this current state.

Maybe people ask more of units than they should...

Kubel its not bad, you are missusing it
Kubel is a recon support cap vehicle, nothing more

You can't do anything more because it's bad.

Its like saying cons arnt bad, youre just using them in combat roles which isnt its role.

The only change Volks need is a weapon slot more. I can't stand the incredible amount of times multiple StG Volks squads had to pass by dropped Brens and Bars only for the enemy to take them back.