Non-RNG Sniper Survivability

Snipers. A manpower bleed tool you need to throw a specific counter at to take down.

The way snipers survive fire is received accuracy: they're hard to hit. Accuracy is a dice roll: the unit fires a shot, and the game rolls to see if it hits.

With infantry squads, there are lots of models and this randomness averages out a bit. With snipers though, everything is concentrated on one model: whether or not you take it down in the time window you have to dive it is very, very random.

That's why snipers are the preferred counter to snipers. It's entirely down to positioning and getting that shot off. It won't miss.


The design of CoH 2 has a lot of RNG you can't really remove: tank combat for example wouldn't work without it. But snipers are game-swinging: if you don't deal with a sniper they all too often cost you the game. Combine that with killing a sniper being so random, and you have a recipe for extreme frustation. It's why snipers are so widely reviled.

So I've got a solution.

• Send sniper received accuracy through the floor: if you get a shot off at a sniper, you hit.
  
• Give snipers a health or received damage bonus to tune their survivability back up to the desired level.

Making sniper survivability work on health rather than accuracy makes them much more consistent. You won't lose your sniper in two volleys to a terrible string of rolls, and your diving light vehicle won't discover the sniper is made of teflon and keeps dodging bullets.

But... snipers have 1.15 received accuracy, they are easiest to hit unit in game and if you flanked it, its dead unless you try to hit it at long range by pios or something.

But... snipers have 1.15 received accuracy, they are easiest to hit unit in game and if you flanked it, its dead unless you try to hit it at long range by pios or something.

I cant count how many times i flanked ost sniper with rifle squad and he just ran past them surviving with more than 50% HP. Maybe its something wrong with riflemen but sniper definitely can run past them and survive.

I cant count how many times i flanked ost sniper with rifle squad and he just ran past them surviving with more than 50% HP. Maybe its something wrong with riflemen but sniper definitely can run past them and survive.

Rifles at long range still need around 10 seconds to kill it.

But... snipers have 1.15 received accuracy, they are easiest to hit unit in game and if you flanked it, its dead unless you try to hit it at long range by pios or something.

I'm suggesting rack it up so high that they always get hit, and then increase their health to the durability level you want.

With a unit as game warping as a sniper, shots missing adds frustration without really adding anything.

It's the same thinking as the Brummbar changes. You remove the two extremes.

I see an issue with tank shells here. Snipers would survive direct hits from tanks. Unless a modifier was put in place.

I see an issue with tank shells here. Snipers would survive direct hits from tanks. Unless a modifier was put in place.

If you did it with received damage I'm fairly sure you could make it only work for small arms. PTRS rifles do different damage outright depending on the target.

And if not, snipers not getting randomly wiped by stray shells in the late game might not necessarily be a bad thing.

If you did it with received damage I'm fairly sure you could make it only work for small arms. PTRS rifles do different damage outright depending on the target.

And if not, snipers not getting randomly wiped by stray shells in the late game might not necessarily be a bad thing.

Actually, PTRS does 13 bonus damage to armor that always hits, regular dmg is 27.

The question is why would snipers have good survivability in the first place? Isnt the point of snipers to stay back and bleed opponent? If you get flanked you should lose sniper, simple. I see many top level players just baiting with their sniper, slowly retreating while taking some shots from chasing squad, just to bait them into trap. Thats just bullshit and making sniper die quickly to small arms would eliminate it.

Actually, PTRS does 13 bonus damage to armor that always hits, regular dmg is 27.

Obers have a malus against explosive damage. Could you use that?

So I've got a solution.

Remove sniper.

So I've got a solution.

Remove sniper.

If that were going to happen, it would've already.

The best we can hope for is to remove as much frustration from the unit as possible. The sheer randomness of countering it without a sniper is one thing that can realistically be changed.

I disagree with a lot of this. Snipers are a tool, your opponent is spamming machine guns, mortars and is just doing great in terms of combined arms.

So you dump 360 manpower into a unit that "might" change the tide. Could be wiped by a random mortar, dead to a flank, chased down by a scout car.

It's a huge investment that puts you on the back foot usually, and you need to really push it to make sure you get those gains. When your opponent begins to dive the sniper you just use him as bait. Keep that in mind, a good player is using the sniper as bait as much as he's using it to attack.


Giving it more hp and a reliable way to kill is just counter to how COH2 really works for infantry fights. It sounds like you dove hard into a particular play style and a sniper is hard countering it.

I don't agree with wiping stuff on retreat easily, it's probably the most frustrating part of Coh2 for me. You fight an engagement, both sides clash. But then there's some assault engineers, sturms, commandos, falls, sitting on your retreat path and just obliterating them. It's a feels bad moment, it's a viable tactic but it's a horrible time.

If that were going to happen, it would've already.

The best we can hope for is to remove as much frustration from the unit as possible. The sheer randomness of countering it without a sniper is one thing that can realistically be changed.

It may be impossible, but that's still the only actual solution.

A unit that completely bypass RA and Armor and other key mechanics of small arms balance, how can it EVER work ?

Small recon long range oriented teams like Jaeger and Pathfinder should be the closest thing to snipers (btw, it's actually more realistic)

[Productive mode engaged]

Sure, addressing the issue of the randomness of its survivability is great, but beware of the possible issues. Imagine an STG squad at 35 range hitting at every single shot the sniper.

1 and 2 aren't enough: high rof/damage weapon with low accuracy will melt the sniper, unless with buff its durability accordingly and make bolt actions and other high accuracy weapon useless because their accuracy is redundant and their raw damage output too low in any case to even lower a bit of that healthbar set to hold 100% accuracy Thompson.

For it to work, it would require target tables, aka a complete mess.
That, and modifiers for explosive damage and shells.

I don't agree with wiping stuff on retreat easily, it's probably the most frustrating part of Coh2 for me. You fight an engagement, both sides clash. But then there's some assault engineers, sturms, commandos, falls, sitting on your retreat path and just obliterating them. It's a feels bad moment, it's a viable tactic but it's a horrible time.

It's not about making it easier, it's about making it consistent.

Without the rule of numbers in play, countering a sniper is incredibly random unless you use a sniper of your own.

I dont like the idea. I simply imagine every conscript model in a squad shotting to the sniper and THEY ALL HIT.
Maybe if you reduce snipers health to half, to force them out of such risky maneuvers in the first place. But then their firing range should be doubled, to keep them usable in any way.

Is someone played wikinger mod here, snipers have and interesting rework. They are really fragile, like 2-3 shots to die, they have a standard firing range (circular, same as vanilla) and they can go "sniping" mode, similar to su85s, 1.5x the firing range but only in a cone shape field of view. Thay can also get upgraded scopes tonhave farer firing range. And all snipers are limited to 1, thats the best part

But... snipers have 1.15 received accuracy, they are easiest to hit unit in game and if you flanked it, its dead unless you try to hit it at long range by pios or something.

Maybe the problem is the buffs they recieve while retreating. Speaking out of my ass, but i think -75% RA is applied.

Maybe remove these buffs while retreating.

It's not about making it easier, it's about making it consistent.

Without the rule of numbers in play, countering a sniper is incredibly random unless you use a sniper of your own.

The word you might want to use is reliable. There are times that someone reaches the enemy sniper after a dive but they simply run away and you cant stop that, the rng protects snipers as they would with any other model. The only 100% reliable tool and with a instant effect is another snipers, because even scout cars get baited to ambushes with snipers.
I must say that skill is always present in this plays, its not like blobbing. But remember the player who looses the sniper gets punished real bad. Making too "predictable" to kill snipers is not that simple. Normal soldiers miss shots. Unless the game implement something like "aimed fire" where soldiers take extra time to shot but they do hit, as you said. This mechanic could be automatic when aiming at snipers

Maybe the problem is the buffs they recieve while retreating. Speaking out of my ass, but i think -75% RA is applied.

Maybe remove these buffs while retreating.

that would make infiltration troops even more powerful and completely remove snipers from the game.

Maybe the problem is the buffs they recieve while retreating. Speaking out of my ass, but i think -75% RA is applied.

Maybe remove these buffs while retreating.

If that value is exposed, you could swap that for received damage.

That'd make retreat wipes less inconsistent across the board. They're also incredibly random in their current form.