USF Urban Assault -Feedback

Dont wanna be that guy, but 4v4s are not top priority balance wise.
Secondly stukas are not that strong if you were to use them, maybe the problem is that you always set up your team weapons in straight lines and clumped together. Anyways keep your opinions clean if you only play 5% of the complete game.

I don't wanna derail the thread too hard but as a 4v4 player I have to agree that 4v4 balancing isnt important.

There are simply to many factors that would require complete game/map reworks in order for it to work. Biggest example IMO is that all modes should have similar resource nodes per map. For example a 1v1 map has 8 CPs 2 Fuel 2 Muni than a 4v4 map should have similar. Just make the zones larger so it fits 8 players instead of 2. This would make 4v4 much more easy to balance along with 1v1 and make it so the mid game isnt non existent as it is now in 4v4.


As it is now there is simply too much unit density, chokepoint maps, and resources to balance 4v4 unless its completely separate from 1v1/2v2. Arti will always be OP in bigger team games because its risk is almost nonexistent when compared to 1v1 or 2v2.

Here lies urban assault, killed by lack of actual feedback. Jackson got much more attention instead.

RIP, you will be missed. April 2019-April 2019

Jacksons prevent USF from being trampled by German Armor in the lategame.
Clearly they are a bigger problem.

Jacksons prevent USF from being trampled by German Armor in the lategame.
Clearly they are a bigger problem.

Panthers were strong because they had to face SU heavy tanks, but then EFA were added and Jackson just stomped any axis armor, in response Panthers were buffed to stand a chance.

Blame Panthers, little you care about balance tho

Back to the commander. The commander is simply not appealing, it can be good on paper and ingame it just doesn't have identity. Riflenade, smoke gimmick, zook on rangers, blades and calliope sounds nice but they aren't giving any identity to the commander.

+ It doesn't fit the USF meta used today and the balance team doesn't seem to be willing to correct it. There is a reason why everyone is going mechanized today or CP0 calling units. And this is not only because it funniest than classic start.

- Are riflenade going to gives any edge vs OKW early game? no.
- Is smoke gimmick going to be more than situational? don't think so.
- Are you going to switch from Jackson / Scott combo to super amo expensive sherman blade? don't think so.
- Are ranger with zook going to be anything good? Do you think a super expensive unit that will be half vaporized by any pz4 shot or new Ostwind is going to be relevant, even with 3 zooks? At least Para have ambush mode to strike first, can heal and reinforce on the field.
- Is the Calliope going to be a game changer as the Pershing can be, you really need to invest fuel in it, 110 fuel is a huge investment. So do you think you're going to call a Calliope before a Jackson, or a Calliope instead of a Sherman HE shell that can at least defend itself vs a rushing Pz4.

- Is the commander giving you the opportunity to go full T1 or full T2 and completing with the commander resources? no. I mean if you decide to go Calliope rush you definitively need T2 but then you have nothing in the commander abilities that gives you T1 abilities such as suppression or light vehicles.

- No mines to defend your Calliope

- No vision to make its strikes more accurate

- No off-map arty to deny a position

- Calliope concise you into a more defensive play for some time but you have zero defensive capability in the commander.
I mean, there is a reason why Infantry and Calliope commanders have those abilities...

My conclusion is that this commander will have some use on teamgame where, again, your partner can provides the usual necessity so you can go offtrack and try to surprise your opponents but I don't see it feeding the necesary needs to complete your roaster.

My conclusion is that this commander will have some use on teamgame where, again, your partner can provides the usual necessity so you can go offtrack and try to surprise your opponents but I don't see it feeding the necesary needs to complete your roaster.

on other hand brit commander will be used only 1vs1

+ It doesn't fit the USF meta used today and the balance team doesn't seem to be willing to correct it. There is a reason why everyone is going mechanized today or CP0 calling units. And this is not only because it funniest than classic start.

I agree with some of your points (especially about the "identity" - i would like to see the dozer sherman from armor company in usf urban assault) but maybe the problem is not the "bad" new commander but the op mechanized commander and the CP0 callins which are meta these days. Its hard to stomach that players (rightfully) complain about heavy callins but happily use 0CP callins and super cheesy light vehicles that give them a significant advantage.

I know its off topic but right now its not fun anymore to watch 1vs1 casts because US players simply destroy even the best wehr players. Light vehicles (US Jeep and sOVIET clown car) just have to muchg impact for their cheap cost. OKW players can at least build an early rakete but wehr players are completly helpless especially against Mechanized.

Its hard to stomach that players (rightfully) complain about heavy callins but happily use 0CP callins and super cheesy light vehicles that give them a significant advantage.

They're not even comparable.

CP0 doctrinal infantry squads are meant to be used as an alternate openings. If they're overpowering they need toning down, but there's nothing wrong with the concept.

Call-in heavies allow you to call in a heavy tank without teching for it. The tanks themselves are if anything a little weak for their cost.

But because you pay no tech, you're getting a Heavy for usually a little less than your opponent pays for a medium. That throws everything off, punishing the player who dares to tech.

Sure, Mechanized isn't much fun to play against, but heavy-call ins break the whole teching design.

They're not even comparable.

CP0 doctrinal infantry squads are meant to be used as an alternate openings. If they're overpowering they need toning down, but there's nothing wrong with the concept.

Yeah, im all in for alternative openings. But pathfinders should complement core units not replace them. Light vehicles should get cost increases and CP0 callins should have bigger cooldowns. Thats all i want. Tying heavies to tech is a no brainer.

I agree with some of your points (especially about the "identity" - i would like to see the dozer sherman from armor company in usf urban assault) but maybe the problem is not the "bad" new commander but the op mechanized commander and the CP0 callins which are meta these days. Its hard to stomach that players (rightfully) complain about heavy callins but happily use 0CP callins and super cheesy light vehicles that give them a significant advantage.

I know its off topic but right now its not fun anymore to watch 1vs1 casts because US players simply destroy even the best wehr players. Light vehicles (US Jeep and sOVIET clown car) just have to muchg impact for their cheap cost. OKW players can at least build an early rakete but wehr players are completly helpless especially against Mechanized.

How many time have you see USF being picked up on tournament before the WC51 rush strat? Me once: Nicko using Recon which became instantly nerfed after that. I'm not particularly fan of WC51 opening strat with Cavl rush but the fact is, that's the only thing that works well vs OKW early game.
USF standard build is at the same level than Conscript build vs OKW, useless unless you outmatch your opponent.

How many time have you see USF being picked up on tournament before the WC51 rush strat? Me once: Nicko using Recon which became instantly nerfed after that. I'm not particularly fan of WC51 opening strat with Cavl rush but the fact is, that's the only thing that works well vs OKW early game.

I dont think that the WC51 is a big problem against OKW; its a problem against wehrmacht. Wehr players dont have counters to a kiting light vehicles and no counters against cc infantry (early game). Maybe the problem can be solved with buffs to wehr.
All in all i would like to see more commander variation in high level games. Im a huge fan of this game and we have great casters but right now its really hard to get excited if you see US mech and OKW Spec ops in 95% of all games.
I personally played the majority of my games with OKW but want big changes to Specops. Its so fucking strong that you really have to "convince" yourself not to chose it. But that is an other story and dont belong in this thread.

All in all i would like to see more commander variation in high level games. Im a huge fan of this game and we have great casters but right now its really hard to get excited if you see US mech and OKW Spec ops in 95% of all games.

Tie all the heavies to tech, remove 33% of the content from Mechanized and Overwatch. Bam.

Tie all the heavies to tech, remove 33% of the content from Mechanized and Overwatch. Bam.

Overwatch should lose the leFH thats for sure, Goliath should occupy 1 commander slot.
Its harder to take away 1 commander ability from US Mechanized though. A good start would be to take away the AT satchel from Cav rifles and make the WC51 more expensive.

Overwatch should lose the leFH thats for sure, Goliath should occupy 1 commander slot.
Its harder to take away 1 commander ability from US Mechanized though. A good start would be to take away the AT satchel from Cav rifles and make the WC51 more expensive.

Mechanized? Easy.

• WC51
  • 155mm Artillery moved to command bar, Mark Target removed, decrew removed

• M3 Halftrack
  • Unchanged.

• Cavalry Riflemen
  • Unchanged.

• 155mm Artillery
  • Restored.

• 76mm Sherman
  • 75mm Dozer Blades removed.

Mechanized is so powerful because it's a do-everything commander. It doesn't need a mortar halftrack, that's Infantry Company's thing. Meatshield medium tanks are Armor and Rifle's things.

As for Overwatch, I'd remove one of the munition-hoggers rather than the leFH. Probably Sector Assault.

THat sounds good, man!

I especially like the changes to WC51!

Mechanized? Easy.

• WC51
  • 155mm Artillery moved to command bar, Mark Target removed, decrew removed

• M3 Halftrack
  • Unchanged.

• Cavalry Riflemen
  • Unchanged.

• 155mm Artillery
  • Restored.

• 76mm Sherman
  • 75mm Dozer Blades removed.

Mechanized is so powerful because it's a do-everything commander. It doesn't need a mortar halftrack, that's Infantry Company's thing. Meatshield medium tanks are Armor and Rifle's things.

As for Overwatch, I'd remove one of the munition-hoggers rather than the leFH. Probably Sector Assault.

1) decrew remove is not good idea because WC 51 armor is very low

The Change will be a boring play because it will have more time to repair than to fight

And it doesn't solve WC 51's problem

price nerf (200 -> 210/5 fuel) is enough because the more USFs use WC 51, the later the teaching will be delayed


2) I agree to delete the Mark target but i want to see this skill in another commander

3) There is no reason to remove Dozer blade and Motar halftrack

- No vision to make its strikes more accurate

I keep suggesting Rifleman Flares to be added to Urban Assault Package for Calliope spotting but alas it hasn't caught on yet.

- No mines to defend your Calliope

- No vision to make its strikes more accurate

The Calliope doesn't really need those as its big HP pool allows it to drive up close to minimize scatter and gives plenty of time to react to a dive. Can't have it all.

I did suggest translating the Ardennes Assault version of Mechanized Company over to multiplayer a long time ago which I think would be more balanced than the current version.

In essence it looked something like this:

M1919A6 LMG Weapon Rack unlock

M3 with Cav Rifles mechanized group call in

M4A3 76(W) Sherman like now since the AA version used the M10 and 105 which Armored is already using

Time on Artillery

Combined Arms which is already in the MP version.

Again like I said this is a rough translation of the AA variant over to MP but right now the MP commander has a sort of meme status because of the amount of shit in it and having several double stuff abilities in it.

This would be a more balanced approach in my opinion where half the stuff is retained in some sense and you can concentrate on both Infantry and vehicles with the commander instead of going vehicle heavy like now.

Alternatively if people love the Mortar HT so much it can replace the Timed on Arty I guess or something but that's just my opinion like I said.

1) decrew remove is not good idea because WC 51 armor is very low

The Change will be a boring play because it will have more time to repair than to fight

And it doesn't solve WC 51's problem

price nerf (200 -> 210/5 fuel) is enough because the more USFs use WC 51, the later the teaching will be delayed

Slowing initial teching as USF means you have to spam Rifles. Their tech was overhauled in the first place to avoid that.

Removing decrew is specifically to force the WC51 to retreat to Rear Echelons after taking too much fire. It allows you to damage it as a counterplay. The current WC51 will retreat behind a shotblocker and rapidly heal itself.

It works well with the Universal Carrier.

If you want a self-healing halftrack, that's what the M3 is for.

2) I agree to delete the Mark target but i want to see this skill in another commander

During the revamp I frequently suggested Mark Target as a replacement for Elite Crews.

3) There is no reason to remove Dozer blade and Motar halftrack

There's no reason to include them either.

Or would you propose we put them in every commander?

Slowing initial teching as USF means you have to spam Rifles. Their tech was overhauled in the first place to avoid that.

Removing decrew is specifically to force the WC51 to retreat to Rear Echelons after taking too much fire. It allows you to damage it as a counterplay. The current WC51 will retreat behind a shotblocker and rapidly heal itself.

It works well with the Universal Carrier.

If you want a self-healing halftrack, that's what the M3 is for.


During the revamp I frequently suggested Mark Target as a replacement for Elite Crews.



There's no reason to include them either.

Or would you propose we put them in every commander?

Dozer blade and Motar halftrack is not "game changer", just another option

There's no point in nerfing them

"game changer" is WC 51 + cav rifleman

Weh have 2 Motar halftrack commander and USF just have only one(inf company)

Why shouldn't the USF have two Mortar Halftrack commander?

In addition, the motar halftrack is more suitable for Mechanized company than infantry company