Volks Incendiary Grenade

Am I the only one who feels like the throw animation is way too quick and nearly impossible to dodge? I pay attention, I watch the game closely and look for the animation when in cover vs. Volks, yet every single time it's thrown I find it nearly impossible to get out of range and avoid any damage. Even when you study the actual animations of the basic core infantry units, it's clear as day just how much faster the volks throws their grenades when they are facing the direction they are throwing it. Like you can visibly see just how much quicker the model goes through the animation compared to the longer IS / RM animations, both grenades which are very easy to dodge if you pay attention unlike the volks.

Compared to other grenades that unlock with tech (though technically I wouldn't count the truck as tech since you have to build it regardless), it's throw speed and animation is nearly a half a second faster, especially when you compare it to Brit / USF grenades, and even moreso when you compare it to its counterpart the Molotov which has the longest throw animation in the game and is pretty much useless in comparison to the incendiary grenade volks get.

I'd compare the speed at which incendiary grenades are thrown to the speed that Shock Troopers throw their RG-42.

So does anyone else agree? If you test it out in Cheatcommands, and time the animations of say, Infantry Sections, Riflemen, Volksgrenadiers and Grenadiers and compare the animation times you will see that Volks are easily the fastest throw of them all by a wide margin, and only Shocks are ever so slightly faster, but not by much.

I feel like a slight nerf to the animation speed would bring this grenade back in line with what it should be as an area denial / cover / anti garrison grenade. It shouldn't have the timing of an elite grenade like the Shocks RG-42.

As far as I'm aware the volks grenade hasn't been changed in quite a while, so I'm interested to see what others think here.

It should be made into a molotov clone. A fast throwing and long range cover denial grenade has no right being in the game especially when you consider that it's closest counterpart the molotov has been shaped for years to NOT be a "win any engagement by negating cover" ability

Remember when the grenade exploded instantly? oh lordy lord.....

and don't forget to reduce the munition cost per use

It should be made into a molotov clone. A fast throwing and long range cover denial grenade has no right being in the game especially when you consider that it's closest counterpart the molotov has been shaped for years to NOT be a "win any engagement by negating cover" ability

I don't have any issues with the profile of the grenade itself, and making it a molotov clone is the wrong idea, especially considering it's a 30 munition ability, not 20 like the molotov. That's more of an issue with the Molotov simply being too weak / having too long of an animation.

I'm just saying that a reduction in its throw speed would allow it to be dodged reliably like other grenades are able to be dodged would bring it in line with other mainline infantry grenades.

and don't forget to reduce the munition cost per use

That's fine, bring it to 25 ammo, increase the throw animation so that it's similar to other grenades and we're in business.

I guess it should take longer, but under the condition that the animation is NOT cancelled when the squad gets supressed after it had already started to get ready for the throw

Remember when the grenade exploded instantly? oh lordy lord.....

and suppression didn't reduce grenade throw range

Anti garrison tools should not be available to mainline infatry. It should be replaced by fragmentation grenade. (Same goes for conscripts.)

Anti garrison tools should not be available to mainline infatry. It should be replaced by fragmentation grenade. (Same goes for conscripts.)

Fragmentation grenades are still anti-garrison though, the issue I have with Incendiary is the lack of response time you have to react to them, and they do a decent amount of damage from the explosion too, so it's not just about avoiding DoT.

Also, some arguments from the people that voted No would be nice, curious to know why you voted the way you voted.

Remember when the grenade exploded instantly? oh lordy lord.....

remember when incendiary grenade got added to volks? It was the time when all flamer weapons were broken af. The incendiary nade or cons molotov cocktail would kill a whole squad in 3 seconds

It is underpowered because an incendiary grenade shouldn't have fuse.
If you can't dodge this thing, you shouldn't play COH at all, because all others nades are basically 10X more destructive.

remember when incendiary grenade got added to volks? It was the time when all flamer weapons were broken af. The incendiary nade or cons molotov cocktail would kill a whole squad in 3 seconds

Nope! That was before my time. I joined just as CalliOPe released.

Fragmentation grenades are still anti-garrison though, the issue I have with Incendiary is the lack of response time you have to react to them, and they do a decent amount of damage from the explosion too, so it's not just about avoiding DoT.

Also, some arguments from the people that voted No would be nice, curious to know why you voted the way you voted.

Lack of response time vs lack of instant damage. I'd rather get caught in a flame nade for 2 seconds than not notice a bundle grenade.

It is underpowered because an incendiary grenade shouldn't have fuse.
If you can't dodge this thing, you shouldn't play COH at all, because all others nades are basically 10X more destructive.

The power is in the area denial. It doesn't matter if you have a second to get out of the way, that cover is removed from play. You might not be taking damage from the flames but you are not negating damage from the rifles. If you don't understand the power of denying cover you shouldn't be playing COH at all, because forcing the enemy into the open is insanely powerful and being able to do it from your own cover and without taking 13 minutes for a model to jerk off into it before they throw it (and not shooting) is well worth half a second delayed fuse.

The power is in the area denial. It doesn't matter if you have a second to get out of the way, that cover is removed from play. You might not be taking damage from the flames but you are not negating damage from the rifles. If you don't understand the power of denying cover you shouldn't be playing COH at all, because forcing the enemy into the open is insanely powerful and being able to do it from your own cover and without taking 13 minutes for a model to jerk off into it before they throw it (and not shooting) is well worth half a second delayed fuse.

The throw range is what, 20? If you're worried about cover just get to 10 range to make things equal.

IMO it could be behind a assault upgrade, costing muni and unlocking molotov clones since flamenades coul be a doctrinal upgrade for feuerstrum

It is underpowered because an incendiary grenade shouldn't have fuse.
If you can't dodge this thing, you shouldn't play COH at all, because all others nades are basically 10X more destructive.

The fuse was added specifically because before that it was even worse than it is now, instant throw + no fuse = no way to dodge. You CAN dodge them, but you're still going to take a bit of damage, and the ability of the incendiary to deny cover is its strongest attribute. Volks can close in, throw a grenade and force the other squad to move exposing them to negative cover and damage to win the engagement. \

And yes, dodging it is very difficult compared to other grenades due to the very short animation for volks. That's the entire point of this thread, to argue that it's too short and should be longer since it's primarily a cover denial / garrison denial tool, even if it means decreasing the cost a few munition.

The throw range is what, 20? If you're worried about cover just get to 10 range to make things equal.

Which wold be reasonable if volks didn't have STGs which shred units upclose and as they close. They can move into cover near you and flush you out of cover without skipping a beat. One should always be trying to use cover, being able to remove it in an instant is incredibly powerful. It used to be reserved for cons alone with a number of drawback including but not limited to being on conscripts.

IMO it could be behind a assault upgrade, costing muni and unlocking molotov clones since flamenades coul be a doctrinal upgrade for feuerstrum

This is how I think it should be as well.the lava nade has hardly been revisited since its addition at which point volks still had Shreks. If stgs are here to stay in their current form I think pulling the flame nade to the assault package would really make it more attractive and might be enough of a toning volks down and keeping cons with something unique instead of just being worse volks by every metric