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Can we adjust the Scott already?

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4 Mar 2019, 19:54 PM
#101
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

I have to agree with Scott needs to be adjusted. I fought numerous good players with top notch micro with Scott and it is almost impossible to counter this thing ESPECIALLY in team game. Allot of time USF players go infantry with few zooks and Scott spam while the team mate can build TDs to counter any tanks. The only solution I found against this cancer is Elephant.
4 Mar 2019, 21:39 PM
#102
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Mar 2019, 11:29 AMVipper


Its rather difficult to tell. USF where designed to be a offensive faction but with the new changes to their tech tree they can be as nearly as defective as Ostheer while their pack howitzer, Scott, Major Arty/Reckon, MHT and Priest give them the edge over Ostheer in static play.


IMO it's US t4 that's the biggest problem. Jackson and Scott are uniquely strong at their specific roles to make up for the fact that US has fewer late-game options. Then the m4a3 is generally good against everything.

A bigger redesign is probably necessary, but I think we are too far along for that. I think for now just weakening the auto fire would be a nice place to start.

4 Mar 2019, 22:02 PM
#103
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

The M8 Scott is a Pack Howie in wheels. Autofire's the point of them: they're bleed tools, not mortars.
4 Mar 2019, 22:40 PM
#104
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



Already works that way.

60 range on the autofire, 80 on the barrage. Autofire is AT gun range.


I mean more so. 60 range is a long way, and unless the AT gun is at the forefront of the fight it doesn't matter because it will take 3 hits to kill it.
4 Mar 2019, 23:26 PM
#105
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1096

Meh, I've never really enjoyed using the scott. I'd much rather use a Sherman with HE shells as it's more versatile albeit costing more fuel.

Although I do play mostly team games so perhaps this is a 1v1 issue?
4 Mar 2019, 23:56 PM
#106
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Mar 2019, 23:26 PMGrim

Although I do play mostly team games so perhaps this is a 1v1 issue?


Yeah scotts are much stronger in 1v1. I play mostly 2v2s and they're still pretty good, but in team games they are way easier to hunt down.
5 Mar 2019, 06:59 AM
#107
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 960

Nothing that a pair of Mortar HTs wouldn't achieve at half the price, at an earlier time in the game, only with access to WP for bonus machine gun hate.

The main gun on the scott does not outrange AT guns on autofire and the shell arc firing over obstacles gives the rounds plenty of travel time before they land. For 70 fuel invested over a Pack Howitzer (which brings considerably more hurt) it gets to be as durable as a Greyhound.

If a pair of them are laying into you thats 140fuel in the pot with zero AT potential. You should be able to work your counters appropriately.

The scott is good but it's also major tech, has a modest AoE and the barrage is only a polite request for a unit to move. Its AI falls well brlow the StuG E and Brum, it can't bounce anything, and anybody telling you to circle AT guns with it is a German trying to sabotage the allied war effort.


Sure, except the mortar HTs can't fire on the move and have a much slower projectile, meaning auto-fire will basically miss anything that has been moving recently. The problem isn't the effectiveness of the scott; the stats are fine. The problem is that it can be used to deal incredible damage with almost zero micro. Units like the STUG-E and Brumbarr require you to manually target to get any use out of them.

The only change I'm looking for is the auto-fire range being reduced; maybe not by half as I initially suggested, but by at least 1/4th to 1/3rd. That should give it the same auto-fire range as the brumbar/STUG-E's manual fire, which seems fair, considering those two have far more HP/Armor/Damage.
5 Mar 2019, 08:07 AM
#108
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

I don't think 45-50 range is an unreasonable start. That and no other adjustments and see from there. 60 range is a long way for such cheap, nimble AI. the isu is only 70 and a hell of alot more expensive (yes better too but at the heart of it we've got a super light one for all intents and purposes)
5 Mar 2019, 08:09 AM
#109
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

I have to agree with Scott needs to be adjusted. I fought numerous good players with top notch micro with Scott and it is almost impossible to counter this thing ESPECIALLY in team game. Allot of time USF players go infantry with few zooks and Scott spam while the team mate can build TDs to counter any tanks. The only solution I found against this cancer is Elephant.
omg this so ridiculus rocket arty needs zero micro and is more deadly and almost imposible to kill. Poor usf have no good lategame idirect fire verus turtle players and still u guys trying to tell me this thing need a nerf. Imo 4vs4 is now on perfect spot but if u desperatly want change then change scott into more anti camper unit than anti blob tool sherman is good enough for this role. Maybe nerf scott autofire attack or delete it and add strong barrage something like little priest with range like rocket arty what u think?
5 Mar 2019, 15:04 PM
#110
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

omg this so ridiculus rocket arty needs zero micro and is more deadly and almost imposible to kill. Poor usf have no good lategame idirect fire verus turtle players and still u guys trying to tell me this thing need a nerf. Imo 4vs4 is now on perfect spot but if u desperatly want change then change scott into more anti camper unit than anti blob tool sherman is good enough for this role. Maybe nerf scott autofire attack or delete it and add strong barrage something like little priest with range like rocket arty what u think?

Scotts were never meant to delete people with such ease.
If your opponent turtles pack howie and priest are your getaway card. Also UFF itself is a great turtler too.
5 Mar 2019, 16:18 PM
#111
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484


Scotts were never meant to delete people with such ease.
If your opponent turtles pack howie and priest are your getaway card. Also UFF itself is a great turtler too.


Lol what? USF is a very mobile army in the game. Also, USF will need to commit to a commander doctrine in order to fight defense Wehrmacht/OKW. Other than that, USF has no indirect fire late game that is a stock unit.

5 Mar 2019, 17:24 PM
#112
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358



Lol what? USF is a very mobile army in the game. Also, USF will need to commit to a commander doctrine in order to fight defense Wehrmacht/OKW. Other than that, USF has no indirect fire late game that is a stock unit.



Firstly i refer to turtle as for other RTS games, wich mean strong lategame defense, and probably a slow but steady map contol increase. So ost with bunker spam and elephant is able to turtle as fir USF with jacksons, riflemen and the new team weapons. Pack howie is a early long indirect fire abke to move, wich means it can deterr enemy defensive positions as a LeFh or Sexton will do. It is underperforming comoared to the lastly mentioned units but its avability and cheapness make up for it.
As fir USF mobility it doesnt mean that much if your intentions are holding ground, vps or defend. Its useful to hunt diving tanks or pickup oportunities but it does not affect the faction profile overall.
USF has an early aggresive midgame adaptative late game turtle style of play.

I hope this elaboration is useful, if you already knew this things pls ignore them
5 Mar 2019, 17:33 PM
#113
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

I don't think 45-50 range is an unreasonable start.


I'm not a fan of nerfing it's range at all. 45 range means the Stug will be able to spank it around. That makes autofire so risky that you might as well remove it.

Just nerf the potency of auto-fire. Longer reload/aim time, shell travel speed, kill radius, etc. One of those or a mix is all better to me than bringing it closer to the frontline.
5 Mar 2019, 18:32 PM
#114
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220



Firstly i refer to turtle as for other RTS games, wich mean strong lategame defense, and probably a slow but steady map contol increase. So ost with bunker spam and elephant is able to turtle as fir USF with jacksons, riflemen and the new team weapons. Pack howie is a early long indirect fire abke to move, wich means it can deterr enemy defensive positions as a LeFh or Sexton will do. It is underperforming comoared to the lastly mentioned units but its avability and cheapness make up for it.
As fir USF mobility it doesnt mean that much if your intentions are holding ground, vps or defend. Its useful to hunt diving tanks or pickup oportunities but it does not affect the faction profile overall.
USF has an early aggresive midgame adaptative late game turtle style of play.

I hope this elaboration is useful, if you already knew this things pls ignore them
pack howie its great but not for late game especially when enemy have stuka or panzerwerfer then u bulid scott and notice its only usefull when okw bois blobs but not when u need to destroy pak43 . Why usf always need to be agressive ? Just look at okw if they want they can be agressive or if they want they can be turtle faction. Or if they want they can deny your campy play style with stuka.

Anyway maybe scott need to be redesigned ? Because if u now nerf it no one will use it. I suggest like i said before delete autofire and buff range and barrage. Sherman is good enough as anti blob tool.
5 Mar 2019, 19:23 PM
#115
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

With the Pack Howitzer now dying 100% of the time to Rocket Artillery, thanks to it's latest nerf, the Scott remains the USF stock option to punish entrenched positions besides Major Artillery. Nerfing it will just make people forget it exists, forcing people to go for indirect fire Commanders in the campy maps, much like it happened back before it got buffed to have 400 HP.
5 Mar 2019, 19:34 PM
#116
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

If you imagine coh2 as a rock paper scissors game, wich paper is infantry, scissors are arty and rock are tanks. UsF has great tanks and inf, but they are vulnerable to arty. Its pretty logic unless you deliberately want OP factions because of sone sort of bias.
OST is basically good tanks and arty. Team weapons are the only forte but inf is expensive to replace. OKM has good inf and tanks, stuka ze fuss is a little OP but LeiG18 is rather bad, no indirect fire superiority (if you ask me for OKM LeFh i alway say it must be removed for OKM). SU has great inf and arty and UKF has a weak balance of the three

Scotts break this format because they provide some of the most reliable way to delete and wipe infantry models at range like a howitzer, packed in a light tank format wich denies indirect fire units vulnerabilities. Its overperforming to say the least and nerfing it to put it either as a light tank AI or a weaker indirect fire option is a must now
5 Mar 2019, 19:57 PM
#117
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

pack howie its great but not for late game especially when enemy have stuka or panzerwerfer then u bulid scott and notice its only usefull when okw bois blobs but not when u need to destroy pak43 . Why usf always need to be agressive ? Just look at okw if they want they can be agressive or if they want they can be turtle faction. Or if they want they can deny your campy play style with stuka.
...

I am lnly quoting to answer you. Just that, being that said lets continue in a civil manner.

USF can do aswell choose to remain aggresive on lategame or become static or turtler. Jackson beat mediums and heavies, get a priest or use heavy amounts of smoke to push on defensive positions, use riflemen and flank and call ins, 1v1 pack howie vs axis howitzers always loose, no surprise. Rocket arty is designed to counter team weapons, if you didnt know that... carrying on, you have the tools, the risk snd the benefit and the skill to perform such maneuver is up to the player.
Now USF can dig up using AT walls, .50 cals and jacsons and scotts. Its possible to hold OST focusing on their tanks and OKM on their inf.
On the other side when you loose inf as axis you are forced to dive with tanks, thats not the case here but an example of when you wether can or cannot choose your playstyle.
5 Mar 2019, 20:33 PM
#118
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220


I am lnly quoting to answer you. Just that, being that said lets continue in a civil manner.

USF can do aswell choose to remain aggresive on lategame or become static or turtler. Jackson beat mediums and heavies, get a priest or use heavy amounts of smoke to push on defensive positions, use riflemen and flank and call ins, 1v1 pack howie vs axis howitzers always loose, no surprise. Rocket arty is designed to counter team weapons, if you didnt know that... carrying on, you have the tools, the risk snd the benefit and the skill to perform such maneuver is up to the player.
Now USF can dig up using AT walls, .50 cals and jacsons and scotts. Its possible to hold OST focusing on their tanks and OKM on their inf.
On the other side when you loose inf as axis you are forced to dive with tanks, thats not the case here but an example of when you wether can or cannot choose your playstyle.
Yeah thats nice rocket arty counter pack howie i know that but i was taking about usf tools witout commander that usf is hopeless when someone camp because how u said stuka rape pack howie because its normal and scott is only good when autofire blobs but cant even kill pak43 crew more funny thing is that pak43 counter scott. Smoke and flank is not the answer. But yes usf should be happy because there is awlays brit player who cry in corner with his mortar pit.
5 Mar 2019, 20:46 PM
#119
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

Yeah thats nice rocket arty counter pack howie i know that but i was taking about usf tools witout commander that usf is hopeless when someone camp because how u said stuka rape pack howie because its normal and scott is only good when autofire blobs but cant even kill pak43 crew more funny thing is that pak43 counter scott. Smoke and flank is not the answer. But yes usf should be happy because there is awlays brit player who cry in corner with his mortar pit.


Yeah, i really mean it when i said civil. But peace was never an option, it seems.

Why would you deny your commander pick in the first place? As USF is an early aggressive faction, picking a commander fast is rather important, thats how the game is. Its like saying you like to play handicapped but then flame about each time you lost

Then, stukas rape you, fine it has been this way since the game was released, and even worse, why do you complaint now? Is it time to adapt and change strategies? Maybe its time...

Smoke ans flank is not the answer... clearly its not if you intent to loose ground due to pasive gameplay and allow axis to get to their pinacle in power ingame. Manpower bleed exists for a reason...

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