Discuss for the votes

Hey all,

Please use this thread to discuss the selected commanders, the voting, and anything else related to this stage of the update.

OKW - Anti-Tank Tactics/ Panzerjäger doctrine
British - Lend Lead Assault Tactics
USF - Urban Assault Tactics
Wehrmacht - Counterattack Tactics
Soviet - Soviet Airborne (but the paratroopers need explosives for the destruction of howitzers, 400 grams of explosives, the standard equipment of any paratrooper during a parachute operation.)

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I really hope the new USF "Work In Progress" USF Company wins.
Sounds like it could bring more interesting tools than the usual call-in infantry, unlock vehicle, call-in vehicle, off-map and new ability one would.

It would be really useful to have a summary of each commander proposal, rather than needing everyone go through the forums to find each one.

It would be really useful to have a summary of each commander proposal, rather than needing everyone go through the forums to find each one.

click on the blue names^^

Seems like the pershing doctrine for usf is the only option, as the other commander suggestion is a joke. Looks like we will end with 2 heavy cavalry commanders, cool.

Edit: noticed they wont add pershing, only calliope is an option, RIP

Am I the only one who's terrified of this patch? We just got done fixing the the issues from the last commander patch, and those weren't even new commanders.

Hate to be a pessimist but adding/tweaking JUST commanders seems like it makes balance a whole lot worse.

It would be really useful to have a summary of each commander proposal, rather than needing everyone go through the forums to find each one.

I'll do a quick summary.

OKW -

Anti-Tank Tactics/ Panzerjäger doctrine – By Various

Concepts primarily revolve around the Pak 40 and an AT squad call in units along with other AT centered abilities.

Grand Offensive (renamed) – By Kpen97

Firestorm doctrine ability that gives Volksgrenadiers the MP40 package.

Panzerfusiliers.

Recon Overflight.

HEAT Shells.

Command Tiger.

UKF -

Lend Lead Assault Tactics – By Various

Primarily revolves around ideas surrounding the M10 Tank Destroyer in British services as well as a mortar squad and around 3 so concepts of giving them a more mobile infantry play with various other support abilities.

Ground Operations Regiment – By Fly1nRabBit

Defensive Operations.

Designate Command Vehicle.

Resupply Halftrack.

Hold the Line.

Forward Headquarters.

USF -

Urban Assault Tactics – By Various

Ideas primarily suggesting things such as flamethrowers, assault squads (such as Ass Engies and Rangers) and mobile artillery like the Priest/Calliope and various support abilities.

Special Support Company – By Aerafield

Dozer Blade.

Fire up!

Rangers.

155 Arty Barrage.

Calliope.

Looks like this commander shares a lot of "features" like the other various suggestions but they decided to specifically mention it.

OST -

Strategic Tank Reserves – By Smartie

Elite Panzer IV J, same as the previous OKW combat group from Elite Armor.

Radio Intercept.

Extra Training, this seems to be something along the lines of the German Infantry commander's new ability that boosts their infantry in various ways.

Combined Arms, I'm guessing a German equivalent of the USF ability.

Reworked Tiger Ace - This I believe is a very good idea and fully support it.

Counterattack Tactics – Various

A group of general abilities that they've gotten from the various people that suggested many commanders:

Assault Grenadiers (improved), Stuka smoke, Heat/ Tungsten shells, Combined Arms, Panzergrenadier Assault Package, Tiger Ace/ King Tiger (improved).

SOV -

Deep Battle Tactics – By kakenman

T-34/85
Rapid Conscription
For Mother Russia
ML-20
IL-2 Sturmovik

Soviet Airborne – By Midnight’s Blade

Airborne Guards.

Allied Supply Drop.

Recon Flight.

IL2 ability of some sort.

M42 (air dropped I'm guessing but not sure)?

I generally like the unique concept of this suggestion since it really gives the Soviets somewhat a new way of playing with the addition of an airborne unit, kinda makes me wonder if such a similar thing can be done with the UKF as well.

Something like an Air Dropped Commandos and Officer along with supplies, air support and maybe something else as well.

@A. Soldier: Thank you for your summary!

On wehrmacht doctrines:
I fully support the mod's team idea of including Assgrens to the "Strategic Tank Reserve" doctrine.
Reworked Assgrens and Tiger Ace would mean that 2 other doctrines would get more attractive: Elite Troops and Armored Assault. That would be huge!

@A. Soldier: Thank you for your summary!

On wehrmacht doctrines:
I fully support the mod's team idea of including Assgrens to the "Strategic Tank Reserve" doctrine.
Reworked Assgrens and Tiger Ace would mean that 2 other doctrines would get more attractive: Elite Troops and Armored Assault. That would be huge!

Mechanized Assault was already made more attractive with the improves for the StuG III E and 250 Halftrack tho.

On USF Doc:
Do USF need another doc which focuses on urban map? I think Armor Doc is perfect for urban map. I think USF need some late game options (Pershing?).

On Wehrmacht Doc:
Reworking Assault Grenadiers is a urgent topic. They start with horrible RA (1.0) as CQC units, and they do not receive any bonus on RA until vet3.

I think the new commanders should do two things: Give factions a way to deal with cheesey checkmate strategies or faction exploits and not completely replace other commanders. I think giving brits access to a mortar and okw access to handheld at are brilliant ideas, but i think usf has a lot of meaningless changes in comparison.

Alright, I think some things need to be changed to make the new usf commanders fresh and unique from other commanders in usf's arsenal. I'm not suggesting to totally scrap everything in the new commander picks, but I suggest to move abilities around to fit the faction in a logical manner.

Here is some input that would logically help usf out:
1. rear echelon package grants them satchels(similar to paratrooper charges) and sandbags.

2. Some type of early game anti-mg option (top priority). As long as there are narrow maps and multiple mgs being used, mortar ht becomes a must. I'm kinda tired of picking the same two commanders or having to play soviets just to deal with multiple mgs and mortars. A slow rof sniper would help a lot. Maybe with a quick aim speed like the ostheer sniper though.

3.Stronger medium tanks. Something like easy 8's with more pen.

4. late game indirect. Priest does well here, but the caliope is kinda meh.

I think the new commanders should do two things: Give factions a way to deal with cheesey checkmate strategies or faction exploits and not completely replace other commanders. I think giving brits access to a mortar and okw access to handheld at are brilliant ideas, but i think usf has a lot of meaningless changes in comparison.

Alright, I think some things need to be changed to make the new usf commanders fresh and unique from other commanders in usf's arsenal. I'm not suggesting to totally scrap everything in the new commander picks, but I suggest to move abilities around to fit the faction in a logical manner.

Here is some input that would logically help usf out:
1. rear echelon package grants them satchels(similar to paratrooper charges) and sandbags.

2. Some type of early game anti-mg option (top priority). As long as there are narrow maps and multiple mgs being used, mortar ht becomes a must. I'm kinda tired of picking the same two commanders or having to play soviets just to deal with multiple mgs and mortars. A slow firing sniper would help a lot.

3.Stronger medium tanks. Something like easy 8's with more pen.

4. late game indirect. Priest does well here, but the caliope is kinda meh.

And all you will get is "reworked" calliope with fire up and dozer blades.

I think the new commanders should do two things: Give factions a way to deal with cheesey checkmate strategies or faction exploits and not completely replace other commanders. I think giving brits access to a mortar and okw access to handheld at are brilliant ideas, but i think usf has a lot of meaningless changes in comparison.

Alright, I think some things need to be changed to make the new usf commanders fresh and unique from other commanders in usf's arsenal. I'm not suggesting to totally scrap everything in the new commander picks, but I suggest to move abilities around to fit the faction in a logical manner.

Here is some input that would logically help usf out:
1. rear echelon package grants them satchels and sandbags( similar to paratrooper charges) to destroy bunkers or trucks and build reliable cover.

2. Some type of early game anti-mg option (top priority). As long as there are narrow maps and multiple mgs being used, mortar ht becomes a must. I'm kinda tired of picking the same two commanders or having to play soviets just to deal with multiple mgs and mortars. A slow firing sniper would help a lot.

3.Stronger medium tanks. Something like easy 8's with more pen.

4. late game indirect. Priest does well here, but the caliope is kinda meh.

1. REs already have Tank Traps which provide green cover so I think the sandbags become kinda obsolete. A combat package upgrade that gives them a satchel sounds practical tho.

2. The Pathfinders already have uhm, "sniping" capabilities so to speak so I think a dedicated sniper squad armed with the M1C Garand sniper is also out of the question sadly and they won't add the Springfield Sniper from the first game.

3. The most they can do is tweak the E8s, again no new models, a lot of people wanted jumbos, including me, but they can only tweak the current Sherman models to the limits of the modding tools which are not much. For example I asked somebody if it's possible to put sandbags on the Sherman and as far as I remember they said that it's not doable.

4. Agreed, Priest really outshines the Calliope hands down. Together with the reason you pointed above with the mortar HT being a reliable anti-garrison unit is why Infantry Company is wayyy more picked rather than Tac Support but I believe they'll need to do a complete revamp in order to fix it while Rifle Company also I believe is due for a revamp as well since it too needs it.

And all you will get is "reworked" calliope with fire up and dozer blades.

Just name it tactical support 2.0.

I'll do a quick summary.

Thank you, I really appreciate it!

1. REs already have Tank Traps which provide green cover so I think the sandbags become kinda obsolete. A combat package upgrade that gives them a satchel sounds practical tho.

2. The Pathfinders already have uhm, "sniping" capabilities so to speak so I think a dedicated sniper squad armed with the M1C Garand sniper is also out of the question sadly and they won't add the Springfield Sniper from the first game.

3. The most they can do is tweak the E8s, again no new models, a lot of people wanted jumbos, including me, but they can only tweak the current Sherman models to the limits of the modding tools which are not much. For example I asked somebody if it's possible to put sandbags on the Sherman and as far as I remember they said that it's not doable.

4. Agreed, Priest really outshines the Calliope hands down. Together with the reason you pointed above with the mortar HT being a reliable anti-garrison unit is why Infantry Company is wayyy more picked rather than Tac Support but I believe they'll need to do a complete revamp in order to fix it while Rifle Company also I believe is due for a revamp as well since it too needs it.

Pathfinders only work in conjunction with arty to deal with mgs. It takes two unit to do the same job as a mortar ht. At that point you might as well go soviets or brits.

I also have issues with tank traps being useless vs suppression. That is why i keep asking for sandbags on rear echelon.

Personally I think the new commanders should focus on in order of importance
1) Fixing/Buffing Units and Abilities that are UP or Underused
2) Filling Gaps in Faction's Unit Roster or Weaknesses
3) Being good enough to be somewhat meta (a given, but I'd rather see a commander that achieves 1 and 2 than a really good commander that doesn't also help other commanders indirectly as well).

As such I think the following commanders are the better choice.

OKW - PanzerJaeger - Obvious choice as a means to change Fusis and offer another choice to sometimes frustrating Raketen usage as primary means of AT.

UKF - Lend Lease - UKF indirect is too piss poor to not pick this option for both Mortar and M10 to supplement Firefly. I would LOVE for the Supply HT and Hold the Line to be buffed but these are secondary needs IMO. Can we PLEASE buff Comet too somehow?

OST - Both are solid submissions but fixing Ass. Grens and Tiger ace should be included IMO. I would love to see Tactical Movement or some other ability changed up as well to help other commanders if possible. Buffing Ostwind should be included IMO if we can get it in scope.

USF - Both are solid submissions but obviously fixing Fire Up and Calliope should be a priority. Rangers are already pretty good IMO but it's nice to have them in a second commander. I personally really like Special Support Company.

Sov - Both are pretty neat but I think Assault Guards should definitely be included in one way or another. Rapid Conscription, B4, DSHK (via Airdrop?) are all worthy of reworks. M5 meatchopper should get added to scope if possible. Incorperating DP28s onto Conscripts would be nice from a pure uniqueness standpoint. I'd rather not have IL2 Loiter in favor of something different and less available in other commanders.

Soviet commander with FMR has Rapid Conscription but no PPSh in doc, which means basically one wasted slot and it has ML-20 aka Dive Bomb bait which is pointless as its on tons of commanders and nobody ever uses it for obvious reasons.
If Conscription is replaced by PPShs and howitzer is replaced by some kind of smoke artry to cover infantry advance or tank retreat it might become viable (it will look basically like that doctrine Smartie(sp?) suggested somewhere)

Airborne commander looks like pure fluff/filler commanders like Partysans and Tank Hunters. Assault Guards are sick lelic joke in their current state and airdropped DP-28 would probably only useful thing in the doctrine but they have to compete with strafes and recons for munitions so you probably end up just spamming DP's on conscripts and not using other air support abilities in first place.

And all you will get is "reworked" calliope with fire up and dozer blades.

Everyone knows that Fire up and Calliope suck hard currently, doesnt mean they're gonna suck after this patch.... it's a big part of the reason why they got added to this commander. And I personally think that Dozer Blade is an amazing upgrade.. 70 mun for heavy terrain crush and an additional 160 health. If you think it's not enough for 1 ability slot, we can think about copying the ability from mech doc so it has the M4C sherman as well but Im really not sure about that.