Ostheer MG/Early

Given Ostheer's tech structure, a 280 MP MG42 is effectively a 20 MP reduction to Ostheer's starting manpower. That's not even a Grenadier model's worth.

It'd be like making Conscripts cost 235 MP. You're changing so little it's really not worth it.

Each detail is worth it... if you care...

Also when HMG42 are most usefull, mid to lategame to hold ground, they are "perfa nerfed" with +20MP with can result in +12-18% waiting time when your popcaps reaches +60. That is impactfull

Given Ostheer's tech structure, a 280 MP MG42 is effectively a 20 MP reduction to Ostheer's starting manpower. That's not even a Grenadier model's worth.

It'd be like making Conscripts cost 235 MP. You're changing so little it's really not worth it.

20mp more to build and a bump of 1 pop cap with associated upkeep would be a small tweak, but this whole thread is about small tweaks.

I still would rather just bring the other MGs back somewhat in line with how well the MG42 preforms. It's not like we're going to see a sudden return to maxim spam. They now cap slower, cost more, and bleed more. And still can't snare. And arrive slower than Mg42's. And set up slower. Etc. etc. etc.

The days of them just being strictly better than conscripts in almost every way are long gone.

Each detail is worth it... if you care...

Also when HMG42 are most usefull, mid to lategame to hold ground, they are "perfa nerfed" with +20MP with can result in +12-18% waiting time when your popcaps reaches +60. That is impactfull

It really isn't man. The fact that your THIS opposed to a 20mp cost increase kinda makes me feel like your a little too invested in what happens to Ostheer.

If 20 MP is not that important, then why bother asking for such nerf? Leave as it is. As your own words say:
"a 280 MP MG42 is effectively a 20 MP reduction to Ostheer's starting manpower. That's not even a Grenadier model's worth."
Why molesting OST with that, not even axis player complaint for allied in such way. Im not even gonna say that OST is OP, and it deserves a nerf.
The faction is not unbalanced and its HMG is not worth nerfing, then leave as it is...
Im not defending OST im taking you own arguments to the end and show it is worthless

If you had read any of the posts in this thread, you would know that people are asking for a MP adjustment because as a Machine Gun the MG42 overpreforms compared to its counterparts.

(You really are way, way too invested in trying to keep people's hands off the OST at all cost)

I still would rather that the Maxim, Vickers and DshK got a rework. Some small changes to those and a slight reduction in light vehicle burst damage on the MG42 would go a long way to making the playing field more even and the gane better balanced overall.

This isn't a matter of asymmetrical design where one nation gets a mortar and another gets a field gun. Everyone has a heavy machine gun and they all do the exact same job.

If you had read any of the posts in this thread, you would know that people are asking for a MP adjustment because as a Machine Gun the MG42 overpreforms compared to its counterparts.

(You really are way, way too invested in trying to keep people's hands off the OST at all cost)

I still would rather that the Maxim, Vickers and DshK got a rework. Some small changes to those and a slight reduction in light vehicle burst damage on the MG42 would go a long way to making the playing field more even and the gane better balanced overall.

This isn't a matter of asymmetrical design where one nation gets a mortar and another gets a field gun. Everyone has a heavy machine gun and they all do the exact same job.

Every ATG is overperforming compared to raketen.
Every mainline overperforms compared to cons.
Churchill croc and KV-8 overperform compared to Hetzer.
T-70 overperforms compared to Stuart or every other light.
But I don't see you arguing on those or any others that they need price increase other nerfs. MG-42 and others are fine with the exception of maxim that could use slight buff and see how it goes from there. There's no reason to touch this MG and if you really want to do it then OST should get that 20MP reduction on other things. But imo nothing in OST should be touched, they seem to be the most balanced and complete faction right now.

Every ATG is overperforming compared to raketen.
Every mainline overperforms compared to cons.
Churchill croc and KV-8 overperform compared to Hetzer.
T-70 overperforms compared to Stuart or every other light.
But I don't see you arguing on those or any others that they need price increase other nerfs. MG-42 and others are fine with the exception of maxim that could use slight buff and see how it goes from there. There's no reason to touch this MG and if you really want to do it then OST should get that 20MP reduction on other things. But imo nothing in OST should be touched, they seem to be the most balanced and complete faction right now.

Raketen stealth is amazing and it is notably cheaper than other ATGs

Cons do need a long term fix and I am always advocating for that thank you very much

The Hetzer is half the price of a KV8 and a third the price of a Croc

T70 has much less utility than the Stuart and is absolutely on par with the Luchs. AEC needs an MG buff IMO



The MG42/Maxim/Vickers discussion is pertinent because they are the same style of unit with the same purpose at the same price point. The more expensive .50 and DshK being only as good and notably worse, respectively, reinforces that point.

And as my above posts, I do believe the MG42 is in the right spot and it is the other MGs that need aligning to it as a point of reference - AP rounds being the only exception.

And that's what it feels like to be told what's what by a cardboard box.

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So yeah. You're picking and choosing totally arbitraty goalpoasts and comparisons.

Either the other HMGs need buffs or the MG42 should cost 280, beacse right now it is indisputably the best in the long run. Let us not mention the DshK.
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Don't get so smug about your own lack of reading comprehension, it's embarrasing
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A) The MG42 imo is in a good spot
B) Every other MG falls short of the MG42
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20mp more to build and a bump of 1 pop cap with associated upkeep would be a small tweak, but this whole thread is about small tweaks.

I still would rather just bring the other MGs back somewhat in line with how well the MG42 preforms...

If you had read any of the posts in this thread, you would know that people are asking for a MP adjustment because as a Machine Gun the MG42 overpreforms compared to its counterparts...

And now you cornered yourself since i HAVE read all your post, i even took the time to highlight how you repeat yourself, and told you not to repeat the same argument over and over again, because it shows not only you lack of a reasons to nerf the HMG42, but also that its a mere caprice of yours to. You only want to nerf, you dont elaborate why it has to be nerfed. On the other side, I gave you the reasons ranging from the faction impact to the most basic infantry support role balance.
Since you ignored all the time the fact that OST HAS GREAT TEAM WEAPONS, as the game gimmics some ww2 history, german wherhmacht had fantastic combined arms tactics. Yet you missed that class.

jokes on you boi, next time try to remember you own words before they backfire at you. If you so desire to others MGs to bring up par to a competent one like the HMG42, then do so. There is but no reason to bother no one with a nonsense nerfing to OST like the one you want.

P.S. we all agree mg42 is the best compared all other mgs, but that is no reason to nerf it

And that's what it feels like to be told what's what by a cardboard box.

A seductive one, at that

I think i'll chime in on the MG discussion

MG42 and 34 are where they should be, no need for changes.

Vickers: Its ok-ish, but it could have it's suppression tweaked or something

M2HB: Now there's a derpy MG, sometimes it works, other times it doesn't, personally I think that its crew get killed much more easily than other MGs, probably because the model operating the MG get's focus fired (rest of the mg team sits too far back) and then we enter the realm of loop of death.
Also despite having an average firing cone, it has the slowest traverse speed of all the MGs(even slower that wide-cone MGs) so unless the enemy walks straight into the centerline M2 takes longest to acquire its target, giving the enemy that extra time needed to close in or escape the cone, and since the cone itself isn't as wide as Vicky or MG42, M2 doesn't have to time to "catch up" to the enemy.
I think some extra traverse speed and change to squad spacing could help it get more consistent

Maxim: everyone knows, no need to beat a dead horse.

DShK: I don't actually use it enough to know what it's like, probably not amazing either.

I also agree we should take a look at AP rounds for M2 and DShK, since they really feel inconsistent.

In general, i think MG42 is fine as it is, and its the other HMGs that should have their problems fixed

If 20 MP is not that important, then why bother asking for such nerf? Leave as it is. As your own words say:
"a 280 MP MG42 is effectively a 20 MP reduction to Ostheer's starting manpower. That's not even a Grenadier model's worth."
Why molesting OST with that, not even axis player complaint for allied in such way. Im not even gonna say that OST is OP, and it deserves a nerf.
The faction is not unbalanced and its HMG is not worth nerfing, then leave as it is...
Im not defending OST im taking you own arguments to the end and show it is worthless

Where and when did I ask for an MG42 cost increase? I think that change is pointless.

The only one making it out as game-changing is you.

Invised a post for flame. This thread has been surprising livid, please keep things in a constructive manner.

On a more sensible front: Yes, the MG34 and 42 remain solid examples.

I didn't much make note of the slow target tracking on the M2 until now. But it would go a long way towards explaining why the .50 wipes so often from frontal attacks

The extra time window to pile in full damage long range units (predominately an axis thing, but not exclusively) is a big window to kill the gunner.

The vickers would be fine if it didn't require trenches, and got a proper vet bonus. Good MG play is mobile and reactionary - everything a trench is not.

I think the MG42 is by far the best MG in many aspects with the only downside being a long-ish pack up time and team size that is similar to Vikers.

Not only does it do the job of an MG (suppress) but it also has the best AOE, best fire arc, best price, amazing Ap rounds, short build time (looking at you maxim), and comes out in t0


So IMO something should change about it or maybe there should be an adjustment to other MGs but I have no idea where to start tbh. I like that its a suppression platform and actually does the job of an MG but the cost effectiveness and limited micro required of it seems a little off...

Nerfing HMG-42 would mean nerfing the Ostheer as faction and I see no reason to nerf Ostheer.

Nerfing HMG-42 would mean nerfing the Ostheer as faction and I see no reason to nerf Ostheer.

+1 Common knowledge is that Ostheer is crap right now and OKW was very dependant on JLI until its nerf.

Raketen stealth is amazing and it is notably cheaper than other ATGs

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The Hetzer is half the price of a KV8 and a third the price of a Croc

T70 has much less utility than the Stuart and is absolutely on par with the Luchs. AEC needs an mg buff imo

Wow man, you took that too far. As for Raks, they are overperformed by any other ATG even though what you said, they miss a lot too, but you didnt mention that. How can you compensate that? Did you just forget your own logic?

Next, again, hetzer is not even competent compared to a kv8 or croc even though they cost only half of the latter ones. Not to mention that any medium dispaces it without difficulty. You are missing the point again.

Finally, T70 has less utility. Really? The point was t70 overperformance and you simply exchange words and justify saying its less useful? A single t70 wreaks havok to infantry and lights but it has less utility? A single well microed t70 beats luchs and still it has less utility?

I think its pretty clear now why mg42 shouldnt be nerfed, its clearly a bias accusation