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The Overwatch Problem

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Sander93
17 Jan 2019, 23:16 PM
#161
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jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2019, 22:24 PMSkysTheLimit
Exactly. I've seen this thing wipe squads in people's base sectors because the actual radius is freaking huge


Striking in base doesn't have anything to do with the ability radius. It can happen when the loitering plane starts to track a unit that then retreats back to base (it will keep tracking the unit regardless of the unit's position, just like all other loiter abilites). If the timing is right, the bombs will fall when the unit arrived in the base. However the new decreased bomb load should make this much less likely and less destructive. And usually the bombs are dropped while the unit is still retreating which should result in them falling short.

If you put the radius next to a base sector, the plane will not acquire targets that are in that base sector.
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murky depths
18 Jan 2019, 00:43 AM
#162
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jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2019, 22:57 PMJae For Jett

Cooldown does not directly equate to time between shots. It is a single factor (or step) in the time between shots. A longer cooldown means a longer time in between shots, but cooldown is not itself necessarily the time in between shots.

To clarify: Think about how dps is based on accuracy, damage, time in between shots, and reload. Similarly, time in between shots is also based on a mix of factors, one of which is cooldown.

Edit: this has gotten pretty far off topic, id like to avoid further discussion on this - at least in this thread


I see, fair enough -- then I'll reiterate my point on Overwatch.

It's just too unpredictable and difficult to counter, and I think the best solution isn't to make it so the bombs are useless, but to detach the bombing from the targeting. That is, the bombs should fall on the area the ability is used similar to the UKF ability. This way it can counter entrenchment, buildings, and people too silly to move their units sufficiently out of the way.
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Lago
18 Jan 2019, 01:26 AM
#163
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Posts: 3260

It's Zeroing Arty in effect. Anything that stays in the circle dies.

Zeroing Arty is 300 munitions iirc.
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SkysTheLimit
18 Jan 2019, 01:47 AM
#164
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jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2019, 23:16 PMSander93


Striking in base doesn't have anything to do with the ability radius.


It does when the shells fall without tracking too. I'm aware of how it can happen with tracking just like with SCAS and P47s, but with Sector Assault it seems like a whole bunch of random shells drop all over the place at the end. Not sure if that was fixed in the hotfix, but I feel like I have seen it since.

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jan 2019, 01:26 AMLago
It's Zeroing Arty in effect. Anything that stays in the circle dies.


That's literally not what it is. Because planes deliver the payload, you can move units outside the circle and they can still be bombed if the tracking locked on before they left. Zeroing arty will never fire shells outside the radius. AOE/Scatter could cause damage to splash over the edge, but its very different from Sector Assault.
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Highfiveeeee
18 Jan 2019, 08:28 AM
#165
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Posts: 1740

The main problem with zeroing artillery is that on some maps the cutoff point is so close to the base, that the circle will reach the base thus wiping all retreating units.
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'

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Sander93
18 Jan 2019, 09:28 AM
#166
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jan 2019, 01:47 AMSkysTheLimit
It does when the shells fall without tracking too.


No, the plane will not drop bombs if there is no target for it to track. It will just loiter until the ability is over. It will not drop bombs randomly and it will not track units that are (visible) in the base sector.
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Lago
18 Jan 2019, 11:49 AM
#167
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Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jan 2019, 01:47 AMSkysTheLimit
That's literally not what it is. Because planes deliver the payload, you can move units outside the circle and they can still be bombed if the tracking locked on before they left. Zeroing arty will never fire shells outside the radius. AOE/Scatter could cause damage to splash over the edge, but its very different from Sector Assault.


If it's more powerful than Zeroing Arty, then it should be more than 300 munitions.
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Baba
18 Jan 2019, 12:18 PM
#168
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it is pretty easy to render the ability useless. all it does is denying access. same as russian il 2 loiter. why is noone complaining about that shit?
Skill planes in generell are misplaced in CoH2, the sector assault is nothing special in that regard
:luvCarrot:
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Lago
18 Jan 2019, 12:29 PM
#169
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If you stay in the circle of a normal skillplane loiter, you can expect your tanks to take a load of damage and your infantry squads to get suppressed and generally softened up. It does a lot of damage.

Stay in Sector Assault's circle and your army gets deleted.
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Katitof
18 Jan 2019, 12:34 PM
#170
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jan 2019, 12:18 PMBaba
it is pretty easy to render the ability useless. all it does is denying access. same as russian il 2 loiter. why is noone complaining about that shit?

(because it was nerfed into irrelevance, which you would know, if you heeded to my advise and actually read the patch notes)

If sector assault is overperforming, it needs a slaph, irrelevant how much it costs, british air supremacy was most expensive off-map in game and still was nerfed into irrelevance.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Baba
18 Jan 2019, 12:35 PM
#171
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Posts: 600

normal loiters instantly do their job, the bombs are being forshadowed by supressing fighters and even after those you have plenty of time to reposition. the only thing that is truly fucked are emplacements since they cannot move and i love the ability for that (efficency vs cancer-placements).
I had the pleasure to play against overwatch a few times recently and you learn quickly how to avoid being wiped
Still think it should be removed from overwatch. For other reasons though than your usual "op" talking.

katitof, you out for some trolling again? wheres your parents?
:luvCarrot:
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Baba
18 Jan 2019, 12:37 PM
#172
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hjgfgsa
:luvCarrot:
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Vipper
18 Jan 2019, 12:41 PM
#173
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jan 2019, 12:29 PMLago
If you stay in the circle of a normal skillplane loiter, you can expect your tanks to take a load of damage and your infantry squads to get suppressed and generally softened up. It does a lot of damage.

Stay in Sector Assault's circle and your army gets deleted.

Sector assault is problematic, on the other hand:

I suggest you leave infantry inside the IL-2 loiter or tanks inside the JStuka AT loiter and check how "soft" they will become.
:)
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Baba
18 Jan 2019, 12:43 PM
#174
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jan 2019, 12:41 PMVipper

Sector assault is problematic, on the other hand:

I suggest you leave infantry inside the IL-2 loiter or tanks inside the JStuka AT loiter and check how "soft" they will become.


I kinda thought the same, well played :D

Theres one REALLY stupid thing though. AA cant shoot the bombers, their payload just appears out of thin air. Change that and the ability is perfectly fine.
:luvCarrot:
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Baba
18 Jan 2019, 12:45 PM
#175
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Posts: 600

Something is off. i double post everytime i click reply
:luvCarrot:
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Lago
18 Jan 2019, 12:57 PM
#176
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Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jan 2019, 12:41 PMVipper

Sector assault is problematic, on the other hand:

I suggest you leave infantry inside the IL-2 loiter or tanks inside the JStuka AT loiter and check how "soft" they will become.


Don't get me wrong, a skillplane will get wipes if you try to tank it.

But a squad or two.

Not your whole army.
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Sander93
18 Jan 2019, 13:01 PM
#177
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Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jan 2019, 12:43 PMBaba
Theres one REALLY stupid thing though. AA cant shoot the bombers, their payload just appears out of thin air. Change that and the ability is perfectly fine.

AA can shoot down the bomber. There's no model for the bomber but AA will target and kill the entity.

It just doesn't really work for the first bomb drop because the bombs will have been released before the "plane" flies into AA range, but that is the same for all bombing strikes.



jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jan 2019, 12:57 PMLago
Don't get me wrong, a skillplane will get wipes if you try to tank it.

But a squad or two.

Not your whole army.

Sector Assault will not wipe entire armies since the hotfix nerf. It shouldn't even wipe a single squad or vehicle unless you get really unfortunate RNG. The payload was significantly reduced.
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Baba
18 Jan 2019, 13:02 PM
#178
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Posts: 600

if you lose your whole army to sec ass, its on you.
:luvCarrot:
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Vipper
18 Jan 2019, 13:25 PM
#179
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jan 2019, 12:57 PMLago


Don't get me wrong, a skillplane will get wipes if you try to tank it.

But a squad or two.

Not your whole army.

PLS if you want to continue this test it in cheat and come back with the results.
:)
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Lago
18 Jan 2019, 13:30 PM
#180
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Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jan 2019, 13:25 PMVipper
PLS if you want to continue this test it in cheat and come back with the results.


If you think Sector Assault is substantially more powerful than a normal loiter, then we agree.

If you think Sector Assault is about the same as a normal loiter, then we disagree.

If you're hypocritically quibbling over tangents, then you're wasting everyone's time.
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