Motherland HMGs rework

I know this is not an easy topic, so i invite you to tacle this with a little patience.

SU Hmgs feel a little out of place, they lack in competence and because recent patches are fixing most problems on many factions. I wish to bring a little light on russian weaponry too. I know many will say that SU is being one of the strongest factions to play, thats why im not suggesting direct buffs but rather little reworks to activate some old rusty mechanic of this faction.


I give you my first the idea of swapping Dshk HMG with maxims, making maxims doctrinal (WTF!?)
My reasons:
-Dshk HMG has e better weapon profile to become unique in the actual game scheme. Being said this i suggest the following rework:
Rework Dshk as a "self protected" HMG with high calliber munition. Aestetically it already has a shield cover, when it sets up it gets green cover in the direction its aiming. This could help to deal frontal assaults (as they happen with maxims) and also become a posible way to hold off LVs as Dshk has big calliber and an ability dedicated to that.
Since Dshk has its firing arc so narrow, flanking it is possible and also necessary since it could resist so much frontally. They wont be spammed because it would take a bu**load of them to cover big areas.

-Now with regards to maxims, since they become doctrinal they could get substancial buffs accompanied with new conditions and a possible rework.
I though they could get some moving speed buff alongside a rework with the firing mechanism. Current suppression/dmg values could be mantained. The new maxim could fire indefenitely without a reload cooldown, to bring it par with other Mgs. Its ability would become useless, so the new ability could consist in *get ready* fire the maxim ON THE MOVE (it has wheels isnt it?) but only backwards, for deffensive pruposes. It should be rather slow and firing could change into burst, but it will make maxims a more versatile HMG than others and thats what make SU special as a faction.
(If you ask me how can someone shoot an HMG and move, imagine a guy pulling another while the last holds and fires the gun on prone position, crazy uh?)
If you dont like that last idea its fine, i think i went a little too far with it. But you can comment your ideas buff/rework/nerfs if you wish to.

A comrade will thank you!

Idk i think the dshk rework is nice but swapping the dshk and maxim may be out of place...
A suppression is all the maxim needs to be useful coupled with nondoc weapon upgrades for conscripts

Increase supression, maybe dmg, and increase the price up to 300 or something. You will have to change cons scalling to avoid maxim spam though

Change nothing - increase price. 5 maxims per soviet in a 2v2 are enough. give them 5 dshks instead and i will uninstall
it is by definition a "support weapon" and you want to treat it as the mbt. just stahp, please.. for the love of Allah! iwant them old demo charges back

Increase supression, maybe dmg, and increase the price up to 300 or something. You will have to change cons scalling to avoid maxim spam though

that is just an mg42 clone and as far as i know, not much people want that. Also SU will spamm the hell out of that hmg...

On the other hand i suggeste Dshk as main HGM since they have the narrowest fire cone, thus spamming them is not that reliable, but i might be wrong, no one should underestimate SU players minds

I like the dshk but when playing against a soviet crew spam i relie on sth like the halftrak you get in Inf Doctrine or mech assault, maybe a 222 - okw kübel, luchs. place 1 dshk in the backline and you just wreck any advance. the thing with 50 cal is, it is only manned by 3 guys and as a result is pretty much a glass cannon. losing a 50 cal hurts, but when dshk is spammable.. well you just get a new, like with maxim now. it requires high amount of micro to counter all these static weapons, same with emplacements.
mgs are meant to support, i usually go completey without them. still works out

I like the dshk but when playing against a soviet crew spam i relie on sth like the halftrak you get in Inf Doctrine or mech assault, maybe a 222 - okw kübel, luchs. place 1 dshk in the backline and you just wreck any advance. the thing with 50 cal is, it is only manned by 3 guys and as a result is pretty much a glass cannon. losing a 50 cal hurts, but when dshk is spammable.. well you just get a new, like with maxim now. it requires high amount of micro to counter all these static weapons, same with emplacements.
mgs are meant to support, i usually go completey without them. still works out

Same thing applies for Allies against Ost's MG-42. In general, MGs should serve their purpose which is providing suppressive fire. Compared to the MG-42, the Allied MGs struggle to pin down a squad, and things get worse against multiple squads. I have seen my Grenadiers getting pinned after 3-4 bursts in open field by a Maxim. They need a slight adjustment at their effectiveness and their price of course.

Give me 4 man maxim squads with buffs to compensate. More dmg and suppression. Im sure the crying will be much much more.

Give me 4 man maxim squads with buffs to compensate. More dmg and suppression. Im sure the crying will be much much more.

That's rather obviously out of question as 6 man squads are soviet theme.
Plus, it would really be overpowering to make up for deathloop, which is impossible to remove, so that's a bad idead from get go.

That's rather obviously out of question as 6 man squads are soviet theme.
Plus, it would really be overpowering to make up for deathloop, which is impossible to remove, so that's a bad idead from get go.

We have a 5 man 120mm mortar though

maxim - buff suppression, 6 man->5 man, nerf fire arc little

dshka - buff suppression little, 6 man->5 man, buff fire arc little

swapping maxim and dshka is not good idea

We have a 5 man 120mm mortar though

That is a solution to the issue that 120mm can survive with 1 entity. It will still lose when it loses 5 models like the normal soviet mortar.

It a solution similar to USF pak howitzer that has a 6 men crew.

We have a 5 man 120mm mortar though

Go read up about the reasoning of it.
Basically, endless bitching won this one.
And ironically, 120mm also suffers from deathloop.

Go read up about the reasoning of it.
Basically, endless bitching won this one.
And ironically, 120mm also suffers from deathloop.

Yeah but it still sadly contradicts the whole "theme" of 6-man crews nonetheless

We have a 5 man 120mm mortar though

That's because it decrews at 1 man instead of 2, and they couldn't fix that.

That's because it decrews at 1 man instead of 2, and they couldn't fix that.

They couldn't fix that, because it wasn't broken.
Team weapons decrew when they have less entities then minimum amount to operate the weapon.
For all ATGs and mortars its 2 men, but 120mm needs only 1, like HMGs.
PACK howi needs 3, so when 2 are left, it'll be decrewed and you can't do anything about it either as that's how the weapon works mechanically.

They couldn't fix that, because it wasn't broken.
Team weapons decrew when they have less entities then minimum amount to operate the weapon.
For all ATGs and mortars its 2 men, but 120mm needs only 1, like HMGs.
PACK howi needs 3, so when 2 are left, it'll be decrewed and you can't do anything about it either as that's how the weapon works mechanically.

I spoke to Mr.Smith about it at the time. If they could have made the 120mm decrew at 2 men like every other mortar in the game, they would have. It's not something the mod tools can change, so they reduced the crew size to create a similar effect.