Balance still not fun at all in team (3vs3+) Open source ?

btw what does + 1000 ? he is rank + 1000 ?

It all comes down to the map and match making in 3 v 3 and 4 v 4.

he might be trolling us now? i mean what is this ludicrous faction breakdown?!

In all honesty, this has to be the most biased 4v4 balance thread in a long time. Allies have been slightly stronger in team games since the changes to panther accuracy. Before that, it has been allied superior arty spam vs panther spam, as can be seen in older 4v4 tournaments. For the past year, we havent had any 4v4 tournaments except the "4v4 new meta " if i recall correctly. In that tournament allies dominated. And the reason for that was Jackson + Firefly > Panther.

Outside of tournament play, if you want to carry 3 mediocre people to victory, you got to make offensive plays. Bleeding manpower and locking down points is often not enough when facing good opponents. That is the reason, why vetting rocket artillery is so strong if rushed. For the same reason, Units like Brummbaer, USF Sherman, T70, IS2, Curchill AVRE, USF mobile Howitzer are OP as fuck when played properly.

I have seen high level players carry so hard with various USF builds, it all comes down to a l2p issue rather than balance.

someone called Noobie talking about l2p issues

the artillery shitfest in 4v4s is too much for my own good. wouldnt say that axis have an disadvantage because of panthers being nerfed the current state of the heavies is more a downside than that

As Axis, I see no point of building a heavy tank in 4 v 4. I would rather build 2 panthers or 1 panther and jagdpz.

In all honesty, this has to be the most biased 4v4 balance thread in a long time. Allies have been slightly stronger in team games since the changes to panther accuracy. Before that, it has been allied superior arty spam vs panther spam, as can be seen in older 4v4 tournaments. For the past year, we havent had any 4v4 tournaments except the "4v4 new meta " if i recall correctly. In that tournament allies dominated. And the reason for that was Jackson + Firefly > Panther.

Outside of tournament play, if you want to carry 3 mediocre people to victory, you got to make offensive plays. Bleeding manpower and locking down points is often not enough when facing good opponents. That is the reason, why vetting rocket artillery is so strong if rushed. For the same reason, Units like Brummbaer, USF Sherman, T70, IS2, Curchill AVRE, USF mobile Howitzer are OP as fuck when played properly.

I have seen high level players carry so hard with various USF builds, it all comes down to a l2p issue rather than balance.

In large team games axis have the advantage in regards to artillery I'd say.

"In large team games axis have the advantage in regards to artillery I'd say."

hm.. im not sure. lefh can be nasty but allies have way better abilities (ir pathfinders, british base howitzer.)
i think the okw stuka is superior in mid game where wipes matter but kinda falls off late since it has close to non affect against armor and not enough range to hit the backline stationary arty of russians

It truly is the maps, The game is balanced at smaller map modes by virtue of there being just as many resource points for players to fight over as in 4v4. Ideally points in large game modes would produce less income but there would be more of them and just as importantly, the maps should be a lot bigger.

i have tested axis heavy armor lately. both tigers feel pretty unefficent. king tiger, if you havent completely smacked your opponent, also comes way too late.
Pershing feels to have a much bigger impact atm since it can engage both armor and infantry while the germans (especially kt) seem to miss infantry alot and dont pack enought punch against sth like churchill, comet, kv1, is2, kv2, isu and are way too slow to get in position to connect a few shots.
I endes using the kt as a meatshield for jp4, the wehr tiger cant really do that since they somehow seem to have removed his frontplating and even small calibers pierce it whithout much of a problem.
I think tds like jp4 and su85 are overperforming a bit for that they are sniping mashineguns once vetted

and no, i didnt take a vet 5 kt into consideration

I think giving Axis and USF bunkers a popcap when they upgrade to an MG would go a long way towards making large team games less of a mess.

"In large team games axis have the advantage in regards to artillery I'd say."

hm.. im not sure. lefh can be nasty but allies have way better abilities (ir pathfinders, british base howitzer.)
i think the okw stuka is superior in mid game where wipes matter but kinda falls off late since it has close to non affect against armor and not enough range to hit the backline stationary arty of russians

idk... the stuka is deadly vs armor (especially light armor) and as an old 4v4 player ive lost alot of armor to massed stuka barrages... id say the stuka is perhaps the deadliest of the 4v4 rocket arties due to its precision and damage

A Stuka rocket does only 200 damage to armor, it needs to land within 2-4 range to do that damage and the rockets have a lot of sideways scatter. In no way can it reliably kill tanks.

A Stuka rocket does only 200 damage to armor, it needs to land within 2-4 range to do that damage and the rockets have a lot of sideways scatter. In no way can it reliably kill tanks.

have you played 4v4s? you know how many stukas can be fielded in 4v4s? ive once had an enemy field quite literally nothing but stukas and an IR truck and quite literally killing our allies armor...

So, i've been following this thread for a while and i would disagree with the notion of 3v3 and 4v4 being no fun at all (otherwise they wouldn't have such a huge playerbase). Now first i should add that i play 3v3 mainly, also i don't play with random teammates.

Now i guess the main reason that many people find 3v3s and 4v4s unfun is the massive ammount of artillery that can be brought to the field. I would agree with this, but i also think that artillery has the same weaknesses in 3v3 and 4v4 as in any game mode. This weakness, as most of you know is that it takes popcap and as such takes away from your field presence in terms of infantry and tanks and if you can't get enough value out of the artillery peace you are probably going to loose the game.
Another thing are commander ablities like a scouting flare combined with a stuka divebomb or a sector assault. These are certainly strong, but i might just as well pull them off in a 2v2 and people aren't calling those unfun, are they?

And for the bunker point that was brought up in the last few posts... just build an at gun, or use smoke and demo charges and just walk up to it, it's not that difficult, three shots or one little 45 muni boompack and 150 mp and 60 munis are down the drain. Great for stalling, but not good enough to keep a halfways solid player off a point if he is determined to get there.

Anyway, this has gone on for long enough, but i just want to add that the game is probably in the best state of balance it has ever been and that, in my opinion translates into the bigger game modes too.

have you played 4v4s? you know how many stukas can be fielded in 4v4s? ive once had an enemy field quite literally nothing but stukas and an IR truck and quite literally killing our allies armor...

Did you know you can… move your tanks if you hear the rockets firing? If they have nothing but Stukas and you lose all your tanks that would definitely be a L2P issue.

Did you know you can… move your tanks if you hear the rockets firing?

No gbem cant, they are stuck in hull down.
what you say? allies have no hulldown? FUCK, Axis op you little Whereaboos

And for the bunker point that was brought up in the last few posts... just build an at gun, or use smoke and demo charges and just walk up to it, it's not that difficult, three shots or one little 45 muni boompack and 150 mp and 60 munis are down the drain. Great for stalling, but not good enough to keep a halfways solid player off a point if he is determined to get there.

Great for stalling, exactly.

In team games that is often all you need, just a bit of time to plonk a marker down and send units over to deal with it.

In 4v4 you often max out your pop so the ability to expand your field presence further than the enemy can make a difference.

Great for stalling, exactly.

In team games that is often all you need, just a bit of time to plonk a marker down and send units over to deal with it.

In 4v4 you often max out your pop so the ability to expand your field presence further than the enemy can make a difference.

Not to mention the Intel they provide. Because a 0pop MG bunker can see further than most units for reasons unknown...