OKW overhaul discussion

Now that core changes are being made in the New Commanders Patch, with hopefully more on the table for future patches, this discussion is more relevant than ever. In recent days I've seen some discussions light up about OKW units here and there.

- Updated the opening post with the rationale behind the first two suggested changes;
- Removed the suggestions about Ostwind and ISG, because the New Commanders Patch will address these units already.

Fix and Improve Kubel

Make Obers come after 2 bases built

Improve Luchs accuracy or damage

Improve FHT damage

Nerf Rak Camo but increase its range and increase price a little, make 5 man since it bleeds fast currently.

Adjust Vet requirements

That the following changes I think it needs.

Volks are hard to discuss about. Made a post about it so check that out!

Nerf Rak Camo but increase its range and increase price a little, make 5 man since it bleeds fast currently.

Personally i would like to see this unit as range 55-60, with stationary cammo (which at vet0 reduces range to current 50 to avoid any abusement). Unit bleeds a lot becouse it doesn't have a green cover bonus like other AT guns which is justify by ability to retreat. The models are really close to eachother becouse of the quite small weapon size wherefore it's easier to kill it by indirect fire. Another fact is that this unit has the smallest range compare to their conterparts so it's simply more vulnerable to small arm fires as well. It's really tricky unit to use.

Personally i would like to see this unit as range 55-60, with stationary cammo (which at vet0 reduces range to current 50 to avoid any abusement). Unit bleeds a lot becouse it doesn't have a green cover bonus like other AT guns which is justify by ability to retreat. The models are really close to eachother becouse of the quite small weapon size wherefore it's easier to kill it by indirect fire. Another fact is that this unit has the smallest range compare to their conterparts so it's simply more vulnerable to small arm fires as well. It's really tricky unit to use.

I feel like i have to say this every time it shows up. Heavy cover for AT guns doesn't work as it should and only applies in like 10% of the cases at best. Survivability comes most likely from the bigger hitbox of AT guns itself blocking shots.

Please no MP40s for Volks, late game against Riflemen & Tommy with LMGs will be a nightmare. I argue the same against PPSH upgrade for cons as non-doctrinal.

Please no MP40s for Volks, late game against Riflemen & Tommy with LMGs will be a nightmare. I argue the same against PPSH upgrade for cons as non-doctrinal.

Agreed

MP40 is terrible, horrible even. Stormtroopers are crap currently since you have to melee range in order to put into effect. If you compare ShockTroops, medium range they are quite deadly. Mp40 has a very poor profile. Unless they decide on making improvements then I would be fine with it.

Volks should stick currently with STG upgrade as there is no other clear resolution.

PPSH for Cons could be a kind of nerfed version default. Preferably an upgrade that gives them maybe instead 3 SVT rifles default costing 45-60 ammo.

Agreed

MP40 is terrible, horrible even. Stormtroopers are crap currently since you have to melee range in order to put into effect. If you compare ShockTroops, medium range they are quite deadly. Mp40 has a very poor profile. Unless they decide on making improvements then I would be fine with it.

Volks should stick currently with STG upgrade as there is no other clear resolution.

10 range is not melee, and the storm's dps within 10 range is very high, they are not supposted to be used to walk up to your enemy, if you use them right, they are very good, don't compare them to shocktroops, which cost more without infiltration, 6 man squad, and they are not all that great at medium range, pgrens are quite a bit better off past 10 range. They are ok at mid range because they have a different role. In exchange storms get amazing camo and infiltration, while still having comparable dps.

Volk mp40s are pretty bad though, since they don't really have the tools to get close, and even then the dps isn't amazing.

10 range is not melee, and the storm's dps within 10 range is very high, they are not supposted to be used to walk up to your enemy, if you use them right, they are very good, don't compare them to shocktroops, which cost more without infiltration, 6 man squad, and they are not all that great at medium range, pgrens are quite a bit better off past 10 range. They are ok at mid range because they have a different role. In exchange storms get amazing camo and infiltration, while still having comparable dps.

Volk mp40s are pretty bad though, since they don't really have the tools to get close, and even then the dps isn't amazing.

It is true, if you handle them right they can be good. The thing is, MP40 users have to get closer than any other SMG wielding units in game since their range I believe is the shortest of them all.

But compare to British Commandos which is a better comparison and counterpart. They suit a better role and for a price difference of 40 manpower have better overall capabilities.

According to patches (I dont remember which one, but mentioned also a patch where certain MP40 wielding classes will be improved but not Stormtroopers) , it evidentally stated that the MP40 profile is worse than the Grease Gun like the Assault Enginners which are good.

I think giving Stormtroopers still the option to STG would be nice though. In its current state, I would rather not use them unless they had an addition a choice to G43 upgrade, I would take that. Mp40 is always minimum range. It is not that much of a Stormtrooper as it was in previous patches.

Assualt Grenadiers for sure would fulfill that role better with MP40s. Remove MP40 from Stormtroopers with any other weapon.

It is true, if you handle them right they can be good. The thing is, MP40 users have to get closer than any other SMG wielding units in game since their range I believe is the shortest of them all.

But compare to British Commandos which is a better comparison and counterpart. They suit a better role and for a price difference of 40 manpower have better overall capabilities.

According to patches (I dont remember which one, but mentioned also a patch where certain MP40 wielding classes will be improved but not Stormtroopers) , it evidentally stated that the MP40 profile is worse than the Grease Gun like the Assault Enginners which are good.

Stormtroopers use a special MP40 with a unique profile. It's better than any other SMG, but since they only get 4 they can't afford to lose any models before initiating an engagement so they are less forgiving than other SMG infantry like Shocks.

Anyway this discussion is about overhauls to OKW units. Volksgrenadiers can't get MP40s instead of STG44s period, because they'd get slaughtered by Bren IS and double BAR Rifles.

Stormtroopers use a special MP40 with a unique profile. It's better than any other SMG, but since they only get 4 they can't afford to lose any models before initiating an engagement so they are less forgiving than other SMG infantry like Shocks.

Anyway this discussion is about overhauls to OKW units. Volksgrenadiers can't get MP40s instead of STG44s period, because they'd get slaughtered by Bren IS and double BAR Rifles.

The idea behind MP40 on VG is upgrade 1-2 squad to be aggressive in the beginning and use the same squads to protect long range units from being overrun.

One could then tone done allied infatry if necessary. The current trend of buffing every infatry out there has continue for too long imo.

The idea behind MP40 on VG is upgrade 1-2 squad to be aggressive in the beginning and use the same squads to protect long range units from being overrun.

What long range units? Kar 98k Volksgrenadiers have insufficient long range DPS, and so does the HMG 34. LMG Obersoldaten do not need close range protection because they have the frangible and bundled grenades. In any case there's Sturmpioneers who already can fulfill that role.

What long range units? Kar 98k Volksgrenadiers have insufficient long range DPS, and so does the HMG 34. LMG Obersoldaten do not need close range protection because they have the frangible and bundled grenades. In any case there's Sturmpioneers who already fulfill that role.

And that is exactly the point one could then reduce the Long range DPS of Penal, Guards , double bars and even double brens. Then VG would enough DPS with the K98.

We should nerf 300MP and 280MP/90-120MU squads because 250MP Volks can't compete?

We should nerf 300MP and 280MP/90-120MU squads because 250MP Volks can't compete?

Well we can't nerf 250mp squads when they blow 240mp squad with the most comparable kits in the entire game away so I guess nerfing the better and more expensive squads so that okw won't struggle is a good step to bringing volks power in line with their cost.

We should nerf 300MP and 280MP/90-120MU squads because 250MP Volks can't compete?

Because high lethality reduces reaction time and creates snowball effects.

And because nerfing those units is easier than buffing every unit out there which seem to the current trend.

Not to mention that in this patch a number of infatry units are buffed like:
Rangers
Conscripts
Maxims
Assault Grenadiers
Pgs

and this units could seem smaller buff or no buff is one actually removed the ST44 upgrade (or redesigned it) and started toning down allied infantries.