Feelings after the Decemberpatch

Assault Engineers are fine most of the time: they're snareless CQC units so later on you've got plenty of ways to counter them.

The problem is how quickly USF can field and mass them, so the solution I think is to make them slower to build: make Pathfinders and Assault Engineers be built from the HQ with a build time comparable to Riflemen.

That way, you won't have USF having two squads on the field right at the start, and two Assault Engineers in the time it takes to build one Rifleman squad.

If Assault engineers do get nerfed, I hope they just make them buildable or change the cooldown timing to make them come out at the same time as if they were built. The other nerfs that have been suggested, like removing the 5th model, would revert the unit back to the same state that it was when nobody used them.

Assault Engineers are very strong early game, hard but not impossible to counter. Should be toned down a little.
Solution:
- I think their flamethrower should be behind double tech (either LT+CPT or tech upgrade) so they don't become too powerful too fast. I think officer unlock wouldn't change timing of 60 munitions very much. If it does then that's fine too.
- Target size to 1.0, down to 0.9 at vet 1.

Cavalry Riflemen seem fine, although I'm not a fan of the AT satchel.
Solution:
- replace satchel with AT rifle grenade. It would already be unique enough for USF as they wouldn't require vet1 for a snare.

I Have to disagree on both of these points. My thoughts are rather scattered, so i'll try make this as coherent as possible.

AssEngis:

I've found them to still be squishy, and it seems it still remains who can get to cover first (vs Strum pios) and will generally trade down when trying to approach a gren or valks squad.

Its no lie that Strum pios are ridiculously strong close range, and if going by the old patch, Ass engis would still trade down pretty hard. (at least in every engagement I had, which was a considerable number) that is why i feel the extra member was needed, Because again, its a race to cover, and majority of the time I'd lose a member before actually getting to cover.

Locking the flame thrower behind two tech walls is not exactly an effective fix, behind one tech wall-maybe, so it scales like battle phases for OST, and still comes online to deal with Volks and Strum blobs or defensive emplacements.

They have access to limited AT, and are commander locked (unlike their German counter parts). Armor company, even after the rework is still average at best. It is my belief youd only choose armor company if you're ahead, as to keep the advantage using the M10s, which unless massed- wont do much to anything above a P4, which is how it should be, and how it historically was.

The vet bonus for the extra man is an interesting concept, They actually tried it in the prepatches. At first it was a vet 2 bonus, then Vet 1. they're simply too against a variety of other units. Although I wouldn't necessarily mind if it were back to a V1 bonus, I do enjoy them as they are now.

However, If they were to go back to being a vet bonus, Id like the vehicle crews increased rate of vet to include assault engies, that way we could have a 4 man squad (to solve the main issue) with increased vet gain so we can still access the extra member a little faster.

Cav Rifleman:
I have to strongly disagree with the rifle nade over the AT satchel. Rifle grenades (I've found) are probably the most unreliable AT nade in the game. It will rarely disable an engine, can be bounced (quite often), and deals a somewhat modest amount of damage (if it connects properly). I'd honestly be happy if they kept the satchel, nerfed the damage, and still reliable engine crits.

Keeping in mind, Our AT options are actually rather limited as it is.
Lets be honest, Zooks are godawful (but slowly getting better)
Out AT is locked behind T2
M20 Mines are good, however I'd rather get a stuart.
the Stuart DOES have a target engine block, and A vehicle button, so I guess you could count that as AT, however both are surprisingly expensive, and one requires to get super close to an enemy tank.

Just thought I'd clarify, I'm not dissing your opinion/view, just stating mine

AE have become too durable for my taste, running straight into close range, having that much close DPS means a early win button... thay should be good, but not that good. USF already has an engi starter unit (RE) and assengis can be put into risk without the same consecuences as SP or pioneers would. Also flamer upgrade is good but it feels odd on a 5 man squad, again its not that hard to rush into cqc as they are now.
IMO lower its dps a bit should do the trick.

No they do not assault grenades is locked behind PB 1 and comes late.

The unit should either get some weapon upgrades or buffed and moved to higher CP.

Assault engineer are problematic because of their durability DPS, how flamers work,of mines,of their utility and because of their synergy with USF light vehicles.

5 men with flamers are bad to begin with even worse when available this early.

With respect, USF is all about combined arms and versatility, and not being good in one specific area. that is what separates them, they are not needing to be a specialized faction. Besides that, USF relies on the early game, because their late game is terrible without the early advantage, especially in Armor company commander. Axis powers always have a way to swing the game back in their favor, which is much harder for (specifically) USF to do. They're still close range units, and they will still get rekt by Grens and volks at further ranges. I personally think that since the patch is early, people are still working around it. They can still be kited, My advice to anyone struggling with the ass engies, learn to kite them. but that is going off topic.

So in conclusion, USF is all about versatility and combined arms, and by stripping their units of their versatility gives USF nothing to work on.

With respect, USF is all about combined arms and versatility, ...

With all due respect, combined arm was always Ostheer's trade mark although with the current USF they have better mainline infantry and equal to better support weapons and that leave Ostheer with little to work with.

Combined arm was always Ostheer's trade mark although with the current USF they have better mainline infantry and equal to better support weapons and that leave Ostheer wil little to work with.

Still got bunkers and MGs. I feel as though OST would have less trouble dealing with Ass engies, since-generally speaking an MG is almost always in their starting lineup.
If we are talking Support weapons-USF mortars have pretty bad range, strong--but barely used.
the 50cal is locked behind T1, and the MG42 is just better at suppressing things in general.
the 57mm AT Gun vs the PAK 43 is honestly no competition, OST will win that one. (how it should be, if aligning with historical accuracy)

But thats going off topic.

There are ways in which how to balance this, having an upgrade option for the extra member is one, if costing munis, it will also balance the flamer out, as it will certainly come later.

Giving it as a vet bonus I tend to agree less with, unless the requirements are lowered. The idea of the 5th man is to have that extra early punch and giving it more survivability, there is no point in getting it later.

One particular argument i will always not agree with though, is "they perform better than strums". with risk of sounding sarcastic, I think thats the entire idea of call-in units. to outperform regular units.

EDIT:

I've never once got the feeling of combined arms with OST, even when maining them. tbh-They've always relied on superior armor and defensive positions, I feel like their trade mark is their heavy armor and superior positioning.

Still got bunkers and MGs.

And USF have fighting positions and hmg that easy accessible

I feel as though OST would have less trouble dealing with Ass engies, since-generally speaking an MG is almost always in their starting lineup.

And USF have T0 mortar that counter the T0 HMG.

If we are talking Support weapons-USF mortars have pretty bad range, strong--but barely used.

USF mortar is almost identical to the Ostheer one, especially give the different squad sizes.

In addition they have the pack howi that is very power even more so with white phosphorous (combine with critical kill weapon for extra fan)

the 50cal is locked behind T1, and the MG42 is just better at suppressing things in general.

And grenadiers are locked behind T1 that does not come with free bazooka squad.

the 57mm AT Gun vs the PAK 43 is honestly no competition, OST will win that one. (how it should be, if aligning with historical accuracy)

Actually plenty of competition especially given price episodically anything medium and bellow (if one uses AP rounds it counter mediums and AP )

But thats going off topic.


EDIT:

I've never once got the feeling of combined arms with OST, even when maining them. tbh-They've always relied on superior armor and defensive positions, I feel like their trade mark is their heavy armor and superior positioning.

Only that armor is not that superior.

Giving it as a vet bonus I tend to agree less with, unless the requirements are lowered. The idea of the 5th man is to have that extra early punch and giving it more survivability, there is no point in getting it later.

One particular argument i will always not agree with though, is "they perform better than strums". with risk of sounding sarcastic, I think thats the entire idea of call-in units. to outperform regular units.

Now compare them with assault grenadier that have the same price are doctrinal and CP 0 and you will find them OP

AssEnginers are ridculus op why my sturmpios dont win first engagement ? From my okw point of viev not only assenginers are op but sherman dozer too. I agree with vipper we must do something. Maybe revert all asseng buffs. What u think guys

AssEnginers are ridculus op why my sturmpios dont win first engagement ? From my okw point of viev not only assenginers are op but sherman dozer too. I agree with vipper we must do something. Maybe revert all asseng buffs. What u think guys

Sturmpios are fine.
AEs are OP though!

I remember they already nerfed AEs back in the day, because they could stand up to Sturmpios, History repeats itself.

If the issue is that AEs have a chance against sturmpios (though in my use of AE and as OKW I find it's about 50/50 of who gets better position+rng), why not change their price to be 300mp?

I would consider that fair given they have a lot of utility outside of smg brawlers, same as sturms.

I don't think it would be a good idea to turn them into a 4 man squad, unless the price would drop significantly to reflect that.

Nevermind that Volks can still engage them from a distance.

If the issue is that AEs have a chance against sturmpios (though in my use of AE and as OKW I find it's about 50/50 of who gets better position+rng), why not change their price to be 300mp?

I would consider that fair given they have a lot of utility outside of smg brawlers, same as sturms.

I don't think it would be a good idea to turn them into a 4 man squad, unless the price would drop significantly to reflect that.

Nevermind that Volks can still engage them from a distance.

Imo 300 power level infantry should not be available before minute one, these units relay on brute force and make the hole combined arm approach pointless.

These unit should be toned and have weapon upgrades available to them if there is need for it.

Early engagement should be between mainline infantry and support weapons.

Imo 300 power level infantry should not be available before minute one, these units relay on brute force and make the hole combined arm approach pointless.

These unit should be toned and have weapon upgrades available to them if there is need for it.

Early engagement should be between mainline infantry and support weapons.

What say you aboot Sturmpioneers then? Turn them into workers with mp40 and give weapon upgrade later?

What say you aboot Sturmpioneers then? Turn them into workers with mp40 and give weapon upgrade later?

One could try 2 ST 2 MP 40 and cost to 280(?) and pop down to 7, they could then upgrade when truck is set up.

Imo they should be replaced as starting unit with VG.

What say you aboot Sturmpioneers then? Turn them into workers with mp40 and give weapon upgrade later?

Have you tried to run SP towards riflemen/IS holding still? Spoiler alert: Its not even funny...
At best SP have to hide and flank, and its powerspike drops fairly fast, they also become the most expensive engi unit ingame as a main drawback. Loosing SP is very bad too. But you already know that, isnt it?

Have you tried to run SP towards riflemen/IS holding still? Spoiler alert: Its not even funny...
At best SP have to hide and flank, and its powerspike drops fairly fast, they also become the most expensive engi unit ingame as a main drawback. Loosing SP is very bad too. But you already know that, isnt it?

You mean OKW's starting unit can't walk up to a mainline infantry unit, in an advantageous position, and expect to win easily?
This clearly has to be corrected ASAP.

You mean OKW's starting unit can't walk up to a mainline infantry unit, in an advantageous position, and expect to win easily?
This clearly has to be corrected ASAP.

Yes, its unacceptable for elite sturm pioneers, special assault forces armed with stg44 to not deal with a mainline infantry whether they are in cover or not. Its simply not acceptable for any german such low performance...

Now could you stop going offtopic?
Sturmpios have their own thread currently, go and show your sarcasm overe there.

One could try 2 ST 2 MP 40 and cost to 280(?) and pop down to 7, they could then upgrade when truck is set up.

Imo they should be replaced as starting unit with VG.

I don't disagree, though I don't know how it would play out in actual gameplay.

@distrofio, my favorite axis faction is OKW, so yes I am aware that it's a bad idea to run SPs into an infantry section. You'd have to avoid going the direct route, flank, or otherwise not take the obviously bad engagement. Same way it's a bad idea to let SPios close the gap on conscripts.

Anyway, my comment was aimed in context at what Vipper said and not to be interpreted as a general "nerf okw plx". Only complaint I have about OKW (when playing as allies) is JLI + Sector Assault.

Have you tried to run SP towards riflemen/IS holding still? Spoiler alert: Its not even funny...
At best SP have to hide and flank, and its powerspike drops fairly fast, they also become the most expensive engi unit ingame as a main drawback. Loosing SP is very bad too. But you already know that, isnt it?

exactly they should win dont matter if alies are in cover or in bulding my sturm pioniers cost 300 and should always win in first minutes. Can we revert assengin buffs or add non doc flamer to okw ?

Yes, its unacceptable for elite sturm pioneers, special assault forces armed with stg44 to not deal with a mainline infantry whether they are in cover or not. Its simply not acceptable for any german such low performance...

Now could you stop going offtopic?
Sturmpios have their own thread currently, go and show your sarcasm overe there.

One could say its unacceptable for elite assault engineers, special assault forces armed with M3a1 grease guns to not deal with a mainline infantry whether they are in cover or not. Its simply not acceptable for any American such low performance...