How are Jäger Light Infantry OP?

I've been doing quite a bit of testing with JLI using cheatcommands today just to see how effective they are.

I've been testing them at close, medium and long range against all the basic allied infantry units, both in negative cover, light color and heavy cover and with and without their G43 upgrade.

They perform well against all squads, even without their G43 upgrade, but giving them the G43 sniper makes them win every single time against every single allied squad on equal terms at all ranges, with the sole exception being allied units at close range. However, that's not a realistic scenario because you're going to have to move towards them to get into close range and take quite a bit of damage in the process.

The only time in which allied infantry have the advantage are when both squads are in negative cover, and even then Jaegers can still win sometimes with RNG, but they almost always lose to infantry sections. They fare better vs. Riflemen and Conscripts in negative cover but still lose, but often take down the allied squads to 1 man while doing so.

In green cover it's a completely different story. Jaegers, even when the opposing allied unit is in green cover win every single time, especially when you give them the G43. Even at close ranges Jaegers are overperforming vs. all allied infantry I tested when both are in green cover. Routinely jaegers can completely wipe a squad without even losing a single man, especially vs. conscripts and riflemen.

There's several things that bother me about Jaegers:

1) Their price is too cheap in a faction that already boasts a great manpower float and cheap infantry (volksgrenadiers)
2) Because of their price and effectiveness, making them an infiltration unit on top of that makes them even more potent.
3) Their ambush damage makes quick work of any allied squads that happen to walk into it.
4) Abilities like sprint just make them even more mobile and damaging.
5) The G43 upgrade is cheap (45 ammo) and can be upgraded anywhere on the map. Why is it that almost all German weapon upgrades don't even require you be in your own territory? Meanwhile, Riflemen have to retreat back to your base just to get a BAR.

I suggest that they make their ambush damage come with veterancy instead of default, and maybe even move the camouflage to vet 2 or something. Their price needs an increase back to at least 290+ manpower, similar to pathfinders.

Stat-wise, I'm not sure that they would need a major nerf if they were increased in price. They would become much less prevalent if they were more expensive, as they were before their massive buff. Right now, I routinely see OKW players in team games simply skip volksgrenadiers alltogether and wait for their Jaegers, and get 4 squads because of how cheap they are, and how little time it takes for them to cooldown to spawn another.

They are especially strong against factions like USF that struggle to maintain a manpower balance since Riflemen are so expensive and underperforming until you get BARs.

Simple fix imo... reduction to 40% crit for the g43 no other change needed... this makes them pathfinders with anti cover capabilities but nothing more...

Simple fix imo... reduction to 40% crit for the g43 no other change needed... this makes them pathfinders with anti cover capabilities but nothing more...

That would make them completely useless because they have to compete with STG Volks and LMG Obers, and unlike Pathfinders can not get a double weapon upgrade on top of the sniper to significantly boost their performance.

Paths dont need to get bars for good performance... i sometimes put em on rifles to bring models down to sniping threshold...

Also jli still retain a 0.9 cover modifier and a +50% acc bonus for the 1st 5 seconds on top of sprint and other abilities...

They wont become useless... just not OP

...
lmg obers is OP
...

Obers are hardy OP that is incorrect.

Theyre strong but not OP... jli on the other hand...

What if blancat is secretly a top 20 player? I daren't take up his challenge.

That would make them completely useless because they have to compete with STG Volks and LMG Obers, and unlike Pathfinders can not get a double weapon upgrade on top of the sniper to significantly boost their performance.

They are infiltration sniper squad, what made you think they should even compete with volks and obers and be some sort of mainline infantry replacement? Spamming JLI should no more viable than spamming snipers or pathfinders

Also IR Pathfinders have only 1 sniper rifle and it has just 40% crit, and IR Pathfinders are also CP1 and cost more, again you're quite entitled to think JLI should be any better than them. Not only JLI crit should be recuded to 40% but garrison/green bonuses they have on their sniper need to also go away.

I think a lot of people here forgotten the follow up of what this doctrine brings aside from the JLI infantry, this doctrine brings out 3 explosive type ability on the table making this doctrine more attractive to use from early to late game.

You have a Goliath that does DEMO damage, you have Artillery piece thats viable on a 4v4 scale, and then you have Bombing run that could RNG wipe troops on the field. Which hence it's being use a lot.

I've encounter a lot of pairs of players on a 4v4 scale using this commander to the fullest, they spam 2 cars and 1 raketen on early game before 1 cp up to start bring out 3 ~ 4 JLI infantry, if the pair is OKW + Werh then the same tactic with additional 2 snipers on their back, bringing out vehicles is ever more difficult as they will bring raketen really early to control any possible vehicle flank.

And yes i even play this JLI tactic myself and now i'm seeing a lot of win rate on my end as OKW, i really wish that there's an adjustment on this commander as i think it's really too effective, or that i wish there's an ally counter as either USF or OKW, Soviet can counter this with Shocktroops but you need 2 ~ 3 shocktroops, which by then the okw will control the map pretty easily

They are infiltration sniper squad, what made you think they should even compete with volks and obers and be some sort of mainline infantry replacement? Spamming JLI should no more viable than spamming snipers or pathfinders

I never said they should be some sort of mainline infantry replacement nor that spamming them should be viable. They should be limited to 1-2 by higher COST. Nerfing their combat power would just make them way worse Obers when OKW is already fielding good mainline infantry and they wouldn't be used, just like before the patch. They need to stand out to make it worthwhile to get them as they barely bring any other utility. With their current power level they can serve as a substitute for Obers that have more sight range but slightly less combat power.

I've been doing quite a bit of testing with JLI using cheatcommands today just to see how effective they are.

I've been testing them at close, medium and long range against all the basic allied infantry units, both in negative cover, light color and heavy cover and with and without their G43 upgrade.

They perform well against all squads, even without their G43 upgrade, but giving them the G43 sniper makes them win every single time against every single allied squad on equal terms at all ranges, with the sole exception being allied units at close range. However, that's not a realistic scenario because you're going to have to move towards them to get into close range and take quite a bit of damage in the process.

The only time in which allied infantry have the advantage are when both squads are in negative cover, and even then Jaegers can still win sometimes with RNG, but they almost always lose to infantry sections. They fare better vs. Riflemen and Conscripts in negative cover but still lose, but often take down the allied squads to 1 man while doing so.

In green cover it's a completely different story. Jaegers, even when the opposing allied unit is in green cover win every single time, especially when you give them the G43. Even at close ranges Jaegers are overperforming vs. all allied infantry I tested when both are in green cover. Routinely jaegers can completely wipe a squad without even losing a single man, especially vs. conscripts and riflemen.

There's several things that bother me about Jaegers:

1) Their price is too cheap in a faction that already boasts a great manpower float and cheap infantry (volksgrenadiers)
2) Because of their price and effectiveness, making them an infiltration unit on top of that makes them even more potent.
3) Their ambush damage makes quick work of any allied squads that happen to walk into it.
4) Abilities like sprint just make them even more mobile and damaging.
5) The G43 upgrade is cheap (45 ammo) and can be upgraded anywhere on the map. Why is it that almost all German weapon upgrades don't even require you be in your own territory? Meanwhile, Riflemen have to retreat back to your base just to get a BAR.

I suggest that they make their ambush damage come with veterancy instead of default, and maybe even move the camouflage to vet 2 or something. Their price needs an increase back to at least 290+ manpower, similar to pathfinders.

Stat-wise, I'm not sure that they would need a major nerf if they were increased in price. They would become much less prevalent if they were more expensive, as they were before their massive buff. Right now, I routinely see OKW players in team games simply skip volksgrenadiers alltogether and wait for their Jaegers, and get 4 squads because of how cheap they are, and how little time it takes for them to cooldown to spawn another.

They are especially strong against factions like USF that struggle to maintain a manpower balance since Riflemen are so expensive and underperforming until you get BARs.

Nice job! Adama
Now OKW JLI spams became so prevailing and annoying! Especially when the OverWatch commander also has leFH 105mm howitzer and section bombing.

I imagine most people are not thinking about Scavenge doctrine when they are complaining about JLI, but that potency is still there, with the added bonus of infiltration nades out of camo. Though personally I think that's fine, so long as you couldn't afford a whole blob of JLI at 250MP.

But I agree with GreyKnight, Overwatch has a bunch of additional powerful abilities each of which makes the commander already desireable.

Flares + sector assault nuke can GG an entire game in a single button click. That ability is still absolutely "random" in whether or not you get hit if you left the circle with almost no time to counter the plane -- unless you're lucky enough to have a soviet quad between the where the plane spawns and where it plans to bomb. This may not be such a huge issue in 1v1 (though if it targets your retreating squad it will be), but in team games it's an absolute nightmare that makes a whole area a no-go zone that is worse than zeroing artillery, with the added bonus of you having no idea which units if any have been targeted -- so to be safe, you have to keep moving your units around like a paranoid schizo.

Goliaths I won't comment on, they're 100 muni movable demos that can stealth. I think it's fine, not amazing but not useless.

But JLI + flares + sector assault = way too much, to the point that I have stopped putting it in my loadout and won't use it anymore.

edit: Oh right, and it gets LEFH, lol.

stg volks is OP

lmg obers is OP

So u need OP JLI, right?


https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198008173898/

Add me and play with me 1vs1

i will play OKW

u paly allies

I accept the challenge for him. I don't get back until the 8th though. I'll stream the match, or maybe we can get someone to cast it... anyway, just come up with a time.

Id like to witness baba vs blancat though... baba made the ludicrous claim that JLI arent OP and needs a lesson taught to him

youre contradicting yourself. in another post you said i achknowledged they were op but am simply ignoring it because of my fanboyism.
now you say i said they are not op.

pls... can you atleast keep your narrative?

No i dont think they are op. i dont think theres anything that could be considered "overpowered". are shocks overpowered because they mow down grenadiers in a 1v3 situation, have a termaldetonator that not only kills Jabba but the Rankor beneath him? no, i dont think so. is the comet op because it just outmoves german heavy callins without being penetrateable by fausts? no. they all have their role in this game, jaegers are light combat troops designed for long range, same as an elephant snipes a comet across the map. Try not to change the game, CHANGE HOW YOU PLAY IT. "

Hypocritical shite... Playercard please?

...jaegers are light combat troops...

Dude, JLI is a recon/ambush squad...

I accept the challenge for him. I don't get back until the 8th though. I'll stream the match, or maybe we can get someone to cast it... anyway, just come up with a time.

I'll take the other side! 00:00 Zulu, you get OPW!

Show Spoiler

*Equips Pikachu suit*

I'm mod now because all mods require pikachu suits.

Don't derail this thread too I'm not invising anything, but you have been warned

Dude, JLI is a recon/ambush squad...

Those are babas words not mine... just forgot to use the coh 2 quotations