Infiltration Troops

The counter play is key and I think a slowed impact via free upgrade is the best measure. That means planning is required and if caught on infiltration before the upgrade they are poorly armed and can be fought off. A proper infiltration would require time and I think that's a fair trade off for popping up behind the enemy lines.

The counter play is key and I think a slowed impact via free upgrade is the best measure. That means planning is required and if caught on infiltration before the upgrade they are poorly armed and can be fought off. A proper infiltration would require time and I think that's a fair trade off for popping up behind the enemy lines.

+1

So 5 man commando squads popping out of buildings and immediately throwing a grenade was balanced?

Falls jumping out a building with fg42s,fausts, and bundled nades was fine and balanced?

Edit: stormtroopers and commandos are my favorite units in the game and even I think the system now is way better than it used to be.

No it wasn't, because it had no counters, which is the whole point of my previous post, if you bothered reading it...

The counter play is key and I think a slowed impact via free upgrade is the best measure. That means planning is required and if caught on infiltration before the upgrade they are poorly armed and can be fought off. A proper infiltration would require time and I think that's a fair trade off for popping up behind the enemy lines.

No, it's not, IT'S A CRAPPY get out of jail card to avoi putting any effort to balance infiltration, you all know it.

There's LITTERALLY no point in rifle sturm or commando infiltration. The whole point of infiltration goes away (don't come at me with a ridicolous "cap cut off" bs answer). When the upgrade takes AT LEAST 30 seconds the enemy will 80% of the time engage before and make your elite commando bleed, when it takes less than 30 seconds people will still righfully complain about how its still a no brainer win engagement button.

Instead, a reasonable approach would be actually giving any faction ways to eliminate infiltration unit entrance points.

Any faction should be able to burn down or make explode any building nondoctrinally through paid munitions.

No, it's not, IT'S A CRAPPY get out of jail card to avoi putting any effort to balance infiltration, you all know it.

There's LITTERALLY no point in rifle sturm or commando infiltration. The whole point of infiltration goes away (don't come at me with a ridicolous "cap cut off" bs answer). When the upgrade takes AT LEAST 30 seconds the enemy will 80% of the time engage before and make your elite commando bleed, when it takes less than 30 seconds people will still righfully complain about how its still a no brainer win engagement button.

Instead, a reasonable approach would be actually giving any faction ways to eliminate infiltration unit entrance points.

Any faction should be able to burn down or make explode any building nondoctrinally through paid munitions.

That's why literally all infiltration units have camouflage. It's really not too much to ask to plan out an infiltration and not just pop out right in the middle of enemy lines. You pop out somewhere where his squads aren't and sit in camouflage while you upgrade and wait for nades to cooldown and then you can attack him behind his lines still. I've done it almost every game I use stormtroopers to pretty great effect, especially with the incendiary nade against unsuspecting mgs. It's still much easier to infiltrate with the building spawn behind his lines and wait for the upgrade than it is to manually guide commandos/stormtroopers behind his lines.

A lot of people seem to forget that the coh1 falls infiltrated without fg42's.

Infiltrating units would be fine if they spawned with basic rifles and all abilities on cooldown.

That way, those putting forethought into their infiltration would be rewarded and those mindlessly spamming it punished.

Remove it from the next game please. Dropping units from airplanes is a better approach.

IMO you should either secure the building first (I.E. Garrisoning it) to order an infiltration squad into, wich makes sense. Or rework the infiltration mechanic to a new one like this:

You can select anywhere on the map, then the squads appears from your base, with permanent invisibility (they could be detected though) and they cant fire. They come with 2 abilities wich i will mention right now. Other abilities are blocked.
This squad must move to the targeted call-in point, hence they cant be controlled freely, they always walk fordward. The first ability is to set a waypoint to the call-in point, this way you can set up a flanking route, multiple wayponts can be queued.
The second skill is to end the infiltration, making the unit ready to be used, and being able to fire and use abilities and/or upgrades.
If enemy units are encoutered during infiltration, the troops either end infiltration immediatly or wait a few seconds in place. before having to end such infiltration.

The last one is more appealing but it requires a lot more of work.
Hope you like it too.

When the upgrade takes AT LEAST 30 seconds the enemy will 80% of the time engage before and make your elite commando bleed, when it takes less than 30 seconds people will still righfully complain about how its still a no brainer win engagement button.

Or you could just remember that all infiltration units come with stealth, and all stealth squads can hold fire....

Edit: Just saw loopdloop already made this point, kudos

Also since when did capping cutoffs or VPs become BS? Doing that with an infiltration squad hardly seems like bs to me

When the upgrade takes AT LEAST 30 seconds the enemy will 80% of the time engage before and make your elite commando bleed, when it takes less than 30 seconds people will still righfully complain about how its still a no brainer win engagement button.

Iirc, storm mp40s take 15 seconds to upgrade.

Ideally one would be able to "clear" buildings but the engine is limited and I think dampening the initial impact in favor of ambush bonuses is the best route given the cards we have. The new stormtroopers are testament that this can be done. They are quite good yet not overbearing.

It is a good idea to set the infiltration premises in advance and take about 120s or more for the reset. If infiltration is pre-arranged, how can it pop out of the battlefield with a single click, unless infiltrated into every building? Do you think this is the right rule for the RTS genre?

Iirc, storm mp40s take 15 seconds to upgrade.

That's why they are a very good infiltration unit

That's why literally all infiltration units have camouflage. It's really not too much to ask to plan out an infiltration and not just pop out right in the middle of enemy lines. You pop out somewhere where his squads aren't and sit in camouflage while you upgrade and wait for nades to cooldown and then you can attack him behind his lines still. I've done it almost every game I use stormtroopers to pretty great effect, especially with the incendiary nade against unsuspecting mgs. It's still much easier to infiltrate with the building spawn behind his lines and wait for the upgrade than it is to manually guide commandos/stormtroopers behind his lines.

That can be done when the upgrade time is low.

When you are effectively hiding 340+ mp doing absolutely nothing as they cost upkeep and popcap you are damaging yourself.

Meanwhile 15 seconds are ridicolous, the squad may as well spawn under enemy fire, upgrade and take cover in building and get to quasi full efficiency anyway.

So 5 man commando squads popping out of buildings and immediately throwing a grenade was balanced?

Falls jumping out a building with fg42s,fausts, and bundled nades was fine and balanced?

Edit: stormtroopers and commandos are my favorite units in the game and even I think the system now is way better than it used to be.

Yes.

That can be done when the upgrade time is low.

When you are effectively hiding 340+ mp doing absolutely nothing as they cost upkeep and popcap you are damaging yourself.

Meanwhile 15 seconds are ridicolous, the squad may as well spawn under enemy fire, upgrade and take cover in building and get to quasi full efficiency anyway.

Good infiltration spawns with stormtroopers still take less time than calling them offmap and waiting for them to walk their ass over to the battlefield and then manually infiltrating them with camp behind enemy lines. The former is still way easier and more efficient than the latter and while you wait you can at least see what’s going on in his lines with the squad.