Seriously. I've tried to figure out how to use it effectively, but i don't get it. Stuart's anti-vehicle capability is limited - not so high ROF and quite slow speed. VS mediums it can only use abilities like shellshock, but is useless otherwise.
VS infantry it's unreliable and misses a lot.
In my point of view, better take 2-3 zooks or AAHT.
So, am i playing it wrong? How should I use stuart so it'll be worth the cost.
I don't know what to do with Stuart
24 Dec 2018, 05:31 AM
#1
Posts: 91
What doesn't kill you - postpones the inevitable
24 Dec 2018, 05:42 AM
#2
Posts: 261
I think it fits best to hunter down Axis' light vehicles, like luchs, AA HT, 222 or flame thrower HT.
Infantry with zooks have difficult to shoot the finishing blow.
Infantry with zooks have difficult to shoot the finishing blow.
开弓没有回头箭。
24 Dec 2018, 06:04 AM
#3
Posts: 91
Yes, it can be used vs LVs, but it's very difficult. Relatively low main gun damage means u need 4-5 shots to kill LV, and that takes long.
For 222 it's easier to take zooks - maybe u don't kill it, but pretty well neutralize. For luchs - the same.
The only thing that can't be cuntered with zooks IMO is Flak HT. But u can get captain and get AAHT, or AT gun.
My point is, that Stuart has too narrow role, not worth of it cost - it's unreliable vs infantry, unreliable vs LVs, almost useless VS mediums. And i think now it's better take ATg and AAHT - reliable AT and reliable AI, then gamble with stuart
For 222 it's easier to take zooks - maybe u don't kill it, but pretty well neutralize. For luchs - the same.
The only thing that can't be cuntered with zooks IMO is Flak HT. But u can get captain and get AAHT, or AT gun.
My point is, that Stuart has too narrow role, not worth of it cost - it's unreliable vs infantry, unreliable vs LVs, almost useless VS mediums. And i think now it's better take ATg and AAHT - reliable AT and reliable AI, then gamble with stuart
What doesn't kill you - postpones the inevitable
24 Dec 2018, 07:17 AM
#4
Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2
Ive actually believed the stuart is disliked because of how much of a generalist it is.
Its moderate anti infantry (it will force off capping units; yes, this does take a fair while). Its moderate anti tank that keeps anything less than a puma from doing what it wants to do. Its moderate utility, with its engine and stun shot. With veterancy, its scouting as well.
The thing is, in my opinion, its 70 fuel price tag is a result of its performance in ALL of these areas, and getting value out of this unit means utilizing it in every single one of these roles. While I definitely wouldnt say its in the best spot power wise, it helps if you dont think about whichever light vehicle you would rather have in the given situation, because the stuart will never be the preferred vehicle in a given role.
Its moderate anti infantry (it will force off capping units; yes, this does take a fair while). Its moderate anti tank that keeps anything less than a puma from doing what it wants to do. Its moderate utility, with its engine and stun shot. With veterancy, its scouting as well.
The thing is, in my opinion, its 70 fuel price tag is a result of its performance in ALL of these areas, and getting value out of this unit means utilizing it in every single one of these roles. While I definitely wouldnt say its in the best spot power wise, it helps if you dont think about whichever light vehicle you would rather have in the given situation, because the stuart will never be the preferred vehicle in a given role.
24 Dec 2018, 07:45 AM
#5
Posts: 91
Ive actually believed the stuart is actually disliked because of how general it is.
Its moderate anti infantry (it will force off capping units; yes, this does take a fair while). Its moderate anti tank that keeps anything less than a puma from doing what it wants to do. Its moderate utility, with its engine and stun shot. With veterancy, its scouting as well.
It surely does take the fair while - so fair while that capping units finish capping and the enemy AT has a lot of time to come for aid
I watched VonIvan vs Prodigy game recently. USF took stuart and lost map control vs Flak HT. The stuart supposed to counter enemy LVs, but having a simple raketen near Flak disabled the stuart completely. If the enemy covers LVs with some rudimentary AT, then your stuart has a very tiny use.
I'd say it's "too moderate" if u understand what i mean
What doesn't kill you - postpones the inevitable
24 Dec 2018, 08:00 AM
#6
Posts: 1979
i think the problem here is the rakaten... its simply a cheesefest as its stands due to its mobile cloaking device + retreat cheese... even the T-70 has problems if the cheese runs its course...
24 Dec 2018, 08:09 AM
#7
Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2
It surely does take the fair while - so fair while that capping units finish capping and the enemy AT has a lot of time to come for aid
I watched VonIvan vs Prodigy game recently. USF took stuart and lost map control vs Flak HT. The stuart supposed to counter enemy LVs, but having a simple raketen near Flak disabled the stuart completely. If the enemy covers LVs with some rudimentary AT, then your stuart has a very tiny use.
As opposed to which other balanced light vehicle which isnt shut down by an AT gun?
Anyway, it can usually force squads them off in a timely enough manner if theyre forced to cap.
24 Dec 2018, 08:18 AM
#8
Posts: 91
As opposed to which other balanced light vehicle which isnt shut down by an AT gun?
Anyway, it can usually force squads them off in a timely enough manner if theyre forced to cap.
Flak HT, Luchs, T-70, Puma, FHT, AEC - they all afraid AT guns, but at LV-period of a game, there is usually only 1 ATG present, so if u stumble upon ATG u can try to make advantage elsewhere. Flak HT, Luchs, T-70 can avoid ATG and wreck infantry on other flanks. Puma and AEC are anti-vehicle purposed. Puma has large sight and range, AEC has smoke. Plus as i recall puma and AEC are faster than stuart, which allows them to dive.
Flame HT can melt ATG crews, and it doesn't need to stay in place.
But with stuart - there is little u can do if enemy covers LVs - u cannot wipe ATG squad fast. It is possible yes, but it takes time, which often u don't have. U also cannot increase pressure on other flanks - stuart is unreliable vs infantry - misses a lot.
Maybe increasing it's MG potency will help somehow?
What doesn't kill you - postpones the inevitable
24 Dec 2018, 08:31 AM
#9
Posts: 528 | Subs: 1
You cant make stuart worth its cost. M20 and aa ht are both much more cost efficient and have roles they are good at, unlike stuart. Only scenario where you would really "want" stuart is if your enemy is spamming luchs/222 and you need AT source that doesnt melt to infantry/doesnt get suppressed.
24 Dec 2018, 08:32 AM
#10
Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2
Again, youre pointing out singular aspects in which given vehicles perform better. These vehicles are more or less specialized in those roles, so it more than makes sense that theyre better.
While I probably would have supported an MG buff on the previous patch, I wouldnt now. The stuart is in an entirely different tier now (and comes 10 fuel earlier), and that kind of change can do wonders for a units spot in the meta. At the least, I think more time is needed to tell whether the stuart actually needs a change or not.
While I probably would have supported an MG buff on the previous patch, I wouldnt now. The stuart is in an entirely different tier now (and comes 10 fuel earlier), and that kind of change can do wonders for a units spot in the meta. At the least, I think more time is needed to tell whether the stuart actually needs a change or not.
24 Dec 2018, 08:38 AM
#11
Posts: 91
Again, youre pointing out singular aspects in which given vehicles perform better. These vehicles are more or less specialized in those roles, so it more than makes sense that theyre better.
While I probably would have supported an MG buff on the previous patch, I wouldnt now. The stuart is in an entirely different tier now (and comes 10 fuel earlier), and that kind of change can do wonders for a units spot in the meta. At the least, I think more time is needed to tell whether the stuart actually needs a change or not.
So, how would u suggest to use it?
What doesn't kill you - postpones the inevitable
24 Dec 2018, 08:41 AM
#12
Posts: 528 | Subs: 1
Well OP asked what to do to make stuart worth its price. I just replied that its not really possible with the current stats on it. Sure you can fire for 2 min on infantry squad to force it to retreat or chase luchs across all the map to try and kill it but it will hardly make stuart worth its price. At the same time im not proposing any buffs since new armor company seems really strong and it goes well with lt tier. All im saying is you cant realisticaly make stuart worth its 70 fuel price tag.
24 Dec 2018, 09:00 AM
#13
Posts: 955
You know, before the patch Ive had a few games where I completely caught an opponent off guard and oblitarated them with a stuart spam.
I made 3+ of these bad boys and just pressed the enemy off map
The thing is, They will realize what is goin on eventually and perform counter measures.
At that point, the role of a main damage dealer is passed onto the Pack Howies
Bloody pisses me off, that the two units are no longer in the same tier
Right now, it really doesnt feel that much useful
I made 3+ of these bad boys and just pressed the enemy off map
The thing is, They will realize what is goin on eventually and perform counter measures.
At that point, the role of a main damage dealer is passed onto the Pack Howies
Bloody pisses me off, that the two units are no longer in the same tier
Right now, it really doesnt feel that much useful
"Nice. Very impressive. Now let´s see Paul Allen´s playercard."
24 Dec 2018, 09:56 AM
#14
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Ive actually believed the stuart is disliked because of how much of a generalist it is.
Its moderate anti infantry (it will force off capping units; yes, this does take a fair while). Its moderate anti tank that keeps anything less than a puma from doing what it wants to do. Its moderate utility, with its engine and stun shot. With veterancy, its scouting as well.
The thing is, in my opinion, its 70 fuel price tag is a result of its performance in ALL of these areas, and getting value out of this unit means utilizing it in every single one of these roles. While I definitely wouldnt say its in the best spot power wise, it helps if you dont think about whichever light vehicle you would rather have in the given situation, because the stuart will never be the preferred vehicle in a given role.
Agreed.
Its so generalist in fact that its performance is sub par at everything it does.
While generalist meds are just that, depending on use and approach can tackle different threats, Stuart is just... meeeh against literally everything it engages.
Facing stuart is facing inconvenience, not a threat.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
24 Dec 2018, 10:00 AM
#15
Posts: 91
I think that's why i'm having difficulties. Stuart may be useful, but that'll require a lot of effort and time, so you'd better just take zooks + aaht or zooks + 50cal
What doesn't kill you - postpones the inevitable
24 Dec 2018, 11:05 AM
#16
Posts: 503 | Subs: 1
Stuart counters Luchs/Flame HT -> serves its AT purpose, and with its stun skills you can often trade it to kill a P4.
Does decent damage against infantry -> Obviously not a T70 but its AT ability is vastly superior to that of the T70.
As J4J mentioned you're comparing it against best-in-class of every category. If you compare Stuart vs Puma in anti-infantry, Stuart wins. If you compare Stuart vs Luchs in AT, Stuart wins by several miles.
People were complaining the EZ8s were bad because they don't understand the concept of a generalist vehicle. A T34-76 or a P4 has a much stronger anti-infantry slant, but has significantly worse survivability and penetration values. That's the trade-off of being a decent-at-everything vehicle.
If you don't like it, don't build it. Many people do, and it works well enough for most.
Does decent damage against infantry -> Obviously not a T70 but its AT ability is vastly superior to that of the T70.
As J4J mentioned you're comparing it against best-in-class of every category. If you compare Stuart vs Puma in anti-infantry, Stuart wins. If you compare Stuart vs Luchs in AT, Stuart wins by several miles.
People were complaining the EZ8s were bad because they don't understand the concept of a generalist vehicle. A T34-76 or a P4 has a much stronger anti-infantry slant, but has significantly worse survivability and penetration values. That's the trade-off of being a decent-at-everything vehicle.
If you don't like it, don't build it. Many people do, and it works well enough for most.
24 Dec 2018, 11:38 AM
#17
Posts: 91
I'd like to see some replays or videos where the stuart was used right, so i could learn from them. The problem is all recent games i watched with stuart were lost by USF, and stuart had almost no impact.
So, if somebody's got a good examples of stuart play, please share
So, if somebody's got a good examples of stuart play, please share
What doesn't kill you - postpones the inevitable
24 Dec 2018, 18:13 PM
#18
Posts: 955
It has one additional advantage against the other vehicles, besides being a generalist
And that is: Surviving two AT shots instead of dying with the second one, so its more of a long-termer, while having really tiny shock value
I wonder how fun it would be if its survivalability would get buffed to the point of dying with a fourth AT hit, rather than buffing the DPS
And that is: Surviving two AT shots instead of dying with the second one, so its more of a long-termer, while having really tiny shock value
I wonder how fun it would be if its survivalability would get buffed to the point of dying with a fourth AT hit, rather than buffing the DPS
"Nice. Very impressive. Now let´s see Paul Allen´s playercard."
24 Dec 2018, 18:48 PM
#19
Posts: 5279
It has one additional advantage against the other vehicles, besides being a generalist
And that is: Surviving two AT shots instead of dying with the second one, so its more of a long-termer, while having really tiny shock value
I wonder how fun it would be if its survivalability would get buffed to the point of dying with a fourth AT hit, rather than buffing the DPS
I don't know... Keep in mind that the Stuart can heal itself right so being extremely durable might be a bit much as far as keeping up pressure.
#stalinwept
24 Dec 2018, 18:53 PM
#20
Posts: 3260
Maybe its snare and blind could lose the mutually exclusive cooldown, Shock Troops style? The snare's neat, but the Stuart'll die before it can use it without the blind.
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