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can we now fix soviet T2 please?

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d0ggY
20 Dec 2018, 09:10 AM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 09:04 AMgbem


vs wehr
cons maxim cons cons mortar or cons cons cons maxim mortar depending on the map...

vs OKW
cons maxim maxim cons cons... ive tried a 4x cons build vs okw... doesnt work as volks just beat them shitless...



vs Wehr : Cons Cons Cons Cons .. then whatever you feel like you need.

This gives you advantage of capping power and you are able to flank, mostly i get molotovs between conscript 3 and 4. Then you just pressure him, you always have the advantage of having higher numbers. Got to play it aggresive.

vs Okw : Maxim Maxim Maxim... Maxim or Zis.

Conscripts vs okw i get very very rarely. Maybe on maps where i need some more capping power.

The Thing is, with your maxims you want to play a little bit of like a flanking infantry unit, and then cover the maxim with another maxim, which is covered by another maxim. You don't want to spread out that much.
Me: I am scared, that i will need to shake ma head the same as when i read ur posts, so i rather not

Katitof: Its not even close to me even at my worst in the past, imagine ullu, incendiary, aaa, vetlolcake and disto merge into one mega axis zord with forcefield protecting it from accepting any factual data. Add to that a victim card(his rumblings at my PM).
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RollingStone
20 Dec 2018, 09:12 AM
#22
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Posts: 173

for starters they get a free panzerfaust while conscripts have to opt for an expensive AT nade upgrade...

Not free, you still need to build the barracks in order to fire fausts - 10 fuel, 200 mp


they have better accuracy in cover and can build trenches bunkers and sandbags whereas conscripts can only build sandbags...

Garrison cover is worse, than green cover, IIRC and molotovs dont give a crap about what cover it is.

lastly ostruppen are paired with the best MG ingame the best sniper ingame and the best AT gun ingame... meanwhile conscripts are paired with the worst MG ingame a moderately good sniper and a low DPM at gun which has a 35 muni barrage ability...

Do you ever heard about 120-mm mortar? Or any kind of mortar?
If you encounter well-defended area, then bombard the hell outta it, dont just chardge into it. Flares and "ourah" will help you to force them out.

the worst MG ingame

Finally vikkers getting some love, i see

And please stop using these dots. It does not sound sarcastical at all.
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Katitof
20 Dec 2018, 09:15 AM
#23
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Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 09:04 AMgbem


vs wehr
cons maxim cons cons mortar or cons cons cons maxim mortar depending on the map...

vs OKW
cons maxim maxim cons cons... ive tried a 4x cons build vs okw... doesnt work as volks just beat them shitless...

Unless you're always going for ppsh, both of these are HORRIBLE openings.
Thing with maxims is, they do NOT work as solitary HMG, they just don't, treat them like crippled, glue eating LMG squad, not HMG suppression platform, you need to keep them in pairs, protecting each other.
If you really want to go maxims, 4 is minimum and you sgould only use 1 to 0 cons, adding 2 Guards asap.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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gbem
20 Dec 2018, 09:17 AM
#24
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Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 09:10 AMd0ggY



vs Wehr : Cons Cons Cons Cons .. then whatever you feel like you need.

This gives you advantage of capping power and you are able to flank, mostly i get molotovs between conscript 3 and 4. Then you just pressure him, you always have the advantage of having higher numbers. Got to play it aggresive.

vs Okw : Maxim Maxim Maxim... Maxim or Zis.

Conscripts vs okw i get very very rarely. Maybe on maps where i need some more capping power.

The Thing is, with your maxims you want to play a little bit of like a flanking infantry unit, and then cover the maxim with another maxim, which is covered by another maxim. You don't want to spread out that much.



problem with a 4x cons build against wehr is that it doesnt scale well into the midgame... if he does survive the aggressive pressuring you are simply gimped especially when the LMGgren comes out... meanwhile trying to support it with 1x maxim to stop the lmg gren that i know is coming out at this point ends up with the a bad lategame aswell as the maxim is hot shit compared to other MGs


vs okw... that exactly is the problem... when MGs become your infantry you know your core infantry is soo weak its a problem... this strat is also very vulnerable to light vehicle rushes despite the AT gun... and it is also prone to getting outcapped and outflanked later in the game...
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gbem
20 Dec 2018, 09:28 AM
#25
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Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 09:12 AMRollingStone

Not free, you still need to build the barracks in order to fire fausts - 10 fuel, 200 mp


meanwhile sov has to sidetech towards it... and tech t1 or t2 in order to get better stuff... go figure




jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 09:12 AMRollingStone

Garrison cover is worse, than green cover, IIRC and molotovs dont give a crap about what cover it is.

yeah but the molly is crap compared to the flamenade and the riflenade soo thats beyond the point

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 09:12 AMRollingStone

Do you ever heard about 120-mm mortar? Or any kind of mortar?
If you encounter well-defended area, then bombard the hell outta it, dont just chardge into it. Flares and "ourah" will help you to force them out.

so? what about mortars? i stated that ostruppen can almost everything conscripts can do for a lower pricetag and that theyre paired with the best support tools ingame (sniper mg and AT gun) and here you are yapping about mortars?.. that is completely besides the point..

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 09:12 AMRollingStone

Finally vikkers getting some love, i see

if you think that the vickers is better than the maxim then you need to give me some of that weed your smoking...
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gbem
20 Dec 2018, 09:31 AM
#26
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Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 09:15 AMKatitof

Unless you're always going for ppsh, both of these are HORRIBLE openings.
Thing with maxims is, they do NOT work as solitary HMG, they just don't, treat them like crippled, glue eating LMG squad, not HMG suppression platform, you need to keep them in pairs, protecting each other.
If you really want to go maxims, 4 is minimum and you sgould only use 1 to 0 cons, adding 2 Guards asap.


yeah... thats why maxims and cons are in dire need of buffs but some people dont seem to get it... the fact that sov T1 or sov T2 with PPSH is the only meta in GCS that regularly achieved wins is a good highlight to the deficiency of T2... stock cons and maxims are simply uncompetitive..
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d0ggY
20 Dec 2018, 09:45 AM
#27
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jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 09:31 AMgbem


yeah... thats why maxims and cons are in dire need of buffs but some people dont seem to get it... the fact that sov T1 or sov T2 with PPSH is the only meta in GCS that regularly achieved wins is a good highlight to the deficiency of T2... stock cons and maxims are simply uncompetitive..
Vonasten played 4 Cons into t2 pretty much every game of GCS and won vs very strong opponents like Noggano for example with that strategy
Me: I am scared, that i will need to shake ma head the same as when i read ur posts, so i rather not

Katitof: Its not even close to me even at my worst in the past, imagine ullu, incendiary, aaa, vetlolcake and disto merge into one mega axis zord with forcefield protecting it from accepting any factual data. Add to that a victim card(his rumblings at my PM).
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Spanky
20 Dec 2018, 10:18 AM
#28
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Posts: 1820 | Subs: 2

I am a t2 player myself, 1v1 or 2v2 and from my experience, maxims work great if you have the ability and knowledge to predict your opponents moves. Experienced players are just better at predicting, so they can win the first engagements and gain map control and this comes from years of practice.

Edit: what I'm trying to say, is that t2 is fine. It used to be over the top.
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TheGentlemenTroll
20 Dec 2018, 10:18 AM
#29
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jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 09:01 AMKatitof

You can count on osttruppen, no really, you can!



Prostruppen are back baby
bg /l
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thedarkarmadillo
20 Dec 2018, 10:56 AM
#30
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Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 09:12 AMRollingStone

Not free, you still need to build the barracks in order to fire fausts - 10 fuel, 200 mp


Ost t1 is 80mp and 10 fuel. There is no conceivable reason to skip it. For the price of a molotov unlock you can open up the use of 3 units and unlock a snare for grens and ostroppen.
#stalinwept
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Esxile
20 Dec 2018, 11:22 AM
#31
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jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 10:18 AMSpanky
I am a t2 player myself, 1v1 or 2v2 and from my experience, maxims work great if you have the ability and knowledge to predict your opponents moves. Experienced players are just better at predicting, so they can win the first engagements and gain map control and this comes from years of practice.

Edit: what I'm trying to say, is that t2 is fine. It used to be over the top.


Then if your opponent has the same ability than you, what do you do?
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gbem
20 Dec 2018, 11:44 AM
#32
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Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 09:45 AMd0ggY
Vonasten played 4 Cons into t2 pretty much every game of GCS and won vs very strong opponents like Noggano for example with that strategy


just because you can win against an opponent doesnt mean anything about a strategy/build`s strength or power... lots of factors at play here even in battles between veterans of similar caliber... and in contrast to the performance of T1 in GCS the strategy underperforms overall...
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Spanky
20 Dec 2018, 11:45 AM
#33
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jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 11:22 AMEsxile


Then if your opponent has the same ability than you, what do you do?


That's the point of the game, always find ways to outsmart your opponent. Then you do exactly what you are capable of.
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gbem
20 Dec 2018, 11:48 AM
#34
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Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 11:45 AMSpanky


That's the point of the game, always find ways to outsmart your opponent. Then you do exactly what you are capable of.


exactly... one can still hammer a nail with a rusty old hammer... but dont expect it to outperform a new better designed hammer that simply does everything the old hammer can do... but better...

cons and maxim combo is simply bad due to the lack of any real advantages enough to offset their serious deficiencies
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Widerstreit
20 Dec 2018, 12:03 PM
#35
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Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 09:01 AMgbem


ostruppen have plenty of defensive utilities... for starters they get a free panzerfaust while conscripts have to opt for an expensive AT nade upgrade... they have better accuracy in cover and can build trenches bunkers and sandbags whereas conscripts can only build sandbags... the molotov sucks compared to the OKW incendiary nade and is locked behind another tech upgrade which further delays the T-70... on top of that ostruppen can improve their lategame firepower with the LMG42... quite literally the only real advantages i see with the conscripts is the mine merge and oraah... this does not make the conscript worth 240mp...

lastly ostruppen are paired with the best MG ingame the best sniper ingame and the best AT gun ingame... meanwhile conscripts are paired with the worst MG ingame a moderately good sniper and a low DPM at gun which has a 35 muni barrage ability...


1. Osttruppen don't get a free faust. You have to useless tech T1 for a early one (you need versus clown-car)

2. trenches and sandbags are locked behind CP2. (revamp commander)

3. Osttruppen are useless out of cover you can't attack effectively. Also, because of larger hit-box they are easier too kill by flamers and all close-range assaults.

Conscripts are more flexible in their job.


Maxim will win every cover-battle versus MG42 (without ability), you change suppression with dps.

Zis has no problem to pen Brummbär or Panther anymore.
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Van Der Bolt
20 Dec 2018, 12:22 PM
#36
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Posts: 91

As OST u need tier 1 to have fausts, but if u don't have tier 1, you don't have grens to fire fausts, so it's incorrect to count 80 MP and 10 FU as a price for faust. This is not a side tech, u build a base to get grens and voila! - grens automatically have fausts.
What doesn't kill you - postpones the inevitable
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Van Der Bolt
20 Dec 2018, 12:31 PM
#37
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Posts: 91

Maxim wins vs MG42 in covered battle. Yeah, that happens often. But MG duels are not what MGs for. MGs are for dealing with "massed infantry" as the in-game descripton says. Massed infantry is blobs, right? So MGs are for dealing with blobs, not with other MGs. And the main problem with maxims is low suppression power. Often it cannot stop massed infantry heading right in the front.
What doesn't kill you - postpones the inevitable
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thedarkarmadillo
20 Dec 2018, 12:34 PM
#38
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Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 12:03 PMWiderstreit


1. Osttruppen don't get a free faust. You have to useless tech T1 for a early one (you need versus clown-car)

80mp and 10 fuel. 80mp and 10 fuel
That's how much it costs for the Faust. 80mp.10fu. That also unlocks a sniper and a mortar and grens
125mp and 25fu unlocks JUST the AT nade for Soviet.
If you think that t1 is useless (unlocking 3 units and a snare for cheaper than JUST a snare in another faction) you are daft. Skipping it saves all of 30 seconds on t2.
#stalinwept
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thedarkarmadillo
20 Dec 2018, 12:37 PM
#39
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jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 12:22 PMVan Der Bolt
As OST u need tier 1 to have fausts, but if u don't have tier 1, you don't have grens to fire fausts, so it's incorrect to count 80 MP and 10 FU as a price for faust. This is not a side tech, u build a base to get grens and voila! - grens automatically have fausts.

Ostroppen also have fausts. You can build ostroppen without t1. If you don't build t1 or 2 you don't get fausts. You spend the resources on t1 you unlock fausts....
#stalinwept
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Van Der Bolt
20 Dec 2018, 13:05 PM
#40
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Posts: 91

Yeah, osttruppen don't get faust by default. But osttruppen are doctrinal, and i've only seen one or two times in my life when OST player used osttruppen only))) Almost always OST gets T1, where faust are included.
What doesn't kill you - postpones the inevitable
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