OKW Sector Assault needs to be fixed ASAP

TBH this new patch has broken me anyway, blobs are more apparent than ever and the game just turns into an arty fest after 10 minutes. Ill see you all in COH3, maybe.

Not sure if you are serious or just trolling. Even if you move away the bombs still target your units once they are spotted in the circle. It´s not area denial but a kill the enemy army now button. Plus it´s also bugged as hell attacking units way outside the circle, dropping bombs after the ability has already come to an end etc. Plus it comes at only 10 CP and costs 250 munitions. If you make a off map strike OP like Sector Assault at least make it 12 CP 300 muni otherwise it´s just stupid.

I just suggest to stop wasting your time with this guy.

Just take a short look at this and you will understand

CoH2 is supported by skeleton crew.
I would be greatly surprised if there was any kind of QA.
Plus, QA job is to check if the ability works as its described in documentation, not evaluate its potential.

Quality testing is different from UAT. I've try some time to play the mod but there were too few people connected on it so I never get to play with someone, and my friends didn't give a shit about it as well. At the same time the topic feedback was completely unbearable with pointless discussions in it.

We all agree there isn't enough players to do a mod beta testing, many issues we found here require hours of playing to be evaluated.
IMO, they should have been releasing the mod live a week earlier, freezing the lobby for a week and ask players to do as usual, play the game and report errors and wrong behaviors. A Live beta testing forcing player to participate on it. I mean the lobby could have continue to work but after a week being reset to what it was before the patch release.
So nobody get harmed, everybody get experience on the patch changes and can get a clean start after the beta testing.

This happend to me in a 1v1 i got 3 squad wipes --> gg

And the cricle wasnt even close at my base sector, the very last run attack is always far outside of his AOE thats a no go.

IMO, they should have been releasing the mod live a week earlier, freezing the lobby for a week and ask players to do as usual, play the game and report errors and wrong behaviors. A Live beta testing forcing player to participate on it. I mean the lobby could have continue to work but after a week being reset to what it was before the patch release.

In essence this isn't any different from what Relic did which is just releasing the patch and have the audience crash test it, and hotfixing the biggest issues shortly after. The entire playerbase can do more testing in a few days than a testing team could do in months.

Anyways Sector Assault issues are now known and are being looked into.

With almost all other area denials there is at least a "build in" escape or a better! warning, that is my point.

But once its on to you and you don't notice it (watching plane flight ways and notice that it locks on in the middle of the game , who does that? ) and also have important stuff around...

Spread units here means, put all potential targets in separate corners of the map. gg Allies

One thing that bugs me is why is it targeting AT Cannons? They always come with some inf support that can't withstand this kind of bombing anyway. A weaker loiter would not end up in this insanity.^^

It should really abort any strafes or be incredible inaccurate somehow (rng bombs anyone?) when it looses sight or oyu escape from the circle, but i guess thats never going to be changed. As i understand there is only one way this mechanic works?

In essence this isn't any different from what Relic did which is just releasing the patch and have the audience crash test it, and hotfixing the biggest issues shortly after. The entire playerbase can do more testing in a few days than a testing team could do in months.

Anyways Sector Assault issues are now known and are being looked into.

Yeah I know but making it official so people are less about to bitch about, or at least we can let them bitch and do the right stuff.

Again, this is how ALL LOITER PLANES work in this game. You are asking for a change which is not feasible (IMO) since this is how it has been working for 5 years since the release of the game.

The UI can cause frustrations but it's something players need to learn. It applies to all components of this game.
Think about how scatter works with barrage type abilities (which can and will most of the time overshoot from the designated area at max range or how you can use attack ground to bypass max range targeting on ballistic weapons. Another example: snares. You just need to be in on targeting range, in order to use them. Even when vehicles darts away at max speed, the projectile will chase it down.

This is not how the game works. Let me explain.
-IL2, AT Stuka, P47, Typhoons, etc. don't show which unit they are targeting. This also applies to any if not all offmaps. The only queue you have is the area on which the targeting begins. Be it by the initial flares or the circle area.
-As i said before all loiter planes will chase you down till the end of times. The difference comes from either the accuracy or the speed at which they do so. From most vids i've seen is that players enter in a false sense of "safety" which makes them stop their units.

I was simply answering your question on how I would change the UI to make it less misleading.
I understand how the game works, as well as how loiter usually behaves. You don't have to repeat yourself.

The problem with sector assault is that even though mechanically it behaves the same as other loiters, it doesn't "feel" that way in game due to the potency of the bombing run. Other abilities might wipe a single unit even when it behaves unpredictably, but sector assault has the potential to wipe the whole army in an instant. On top of that, it breaks one of the "rules" in that AOE bombing run abilities should not be able to be dropped inside the base, especially without vision. I know that the ability itself can't be used inside the base, but in practice, not only does the bombing run happen in base, it can happen even when the ability is used somewhere else on the map. This also happens without any indication as to how to evade it for the affected player.

We have seen other loiter abilities get nerfed over the years for this same reason. Why should sector assault get special treatment when it's the worst offender in being detrimental to the game? Especially when it is an ability that the balance team deemed to be broken mechanically and it's removal was proposed.

No one is asking for the UI or loiter mechanics to be changed across the board, people are suggesting that this one ability gets looked at. Bomb dropping mechanics was fixed for Brits' Air Supremacy so that bombs are not dropped in the base, so it is hard to see why the same can't be done.

Not sure if you are serious or just trolling. Even if you move away the bombs still target your units once they are spotted in the circle. It´s not area denial but a kill the enemy army now button. Plus it´s also bugged as hell attacking units way outside the circle, dropping bombs after the ability has already come to an end etc. Plus it comes at only 10 CP and costs 250 munitions. If you make a off map strike OP like Sector Assault at least make it 12 CP 300 muni otherwise it´s just stupid.

I think Sector Assault should be strong but i agree with you that the ability comes too early. It should be available at 12 CP like all other plane attacks. 300 mun cost is also reasonable. An other option would be to increase the scatter of the bombs. The mod team changed that from 80 to 20 if i remember it correctly. An increase to 40 would do it too in combination with the higher CP requirements.
An other more drastic option: If the current problems cant be fixed the mod team should consider replacing sector assault with Wehrmacht's AT stuka loiter.

@Kirrik:
I will never understand why people like you think that 1 more OKW commander with howitzer will lead to howie spamming. If people want to build leFhs and dont have it in Overwatch they would just select Fortress commander and build it then.
BTW: Pls look at how many soviet commanders have the 152 mm howie in their load out. I havent seen soviet howie spams so far.

I think Sector Assault should be strong but i agree with you that the ability comes too early. It should be available at 12 CP like all other plane attacks. 300 mun cost is also reasonable. An other option would be to increase the scatter of the bombs. The mod team changed that from 80 to 20 if i remember it correctly. An increase to 40 would do it too in combination with the higher CP requirements.
An other more drastic option: If the current problems cant be fixed the mod team should consider replacing sector assault with Wehrmacht's AT stuka loiter.

@Kirrik:
I will never understand why people like you think that 1 more OKW commander with howitzer will lead to howie spamming. If people want to build leFhs and dont have it in Overwatch they would just select Fortress commander and build it then.
BTW: Pls look at how many soviet commanders have the 152 mm howie in their load out. I havent seen soviet howie spams so far.

Reason you'll never see 152mm is Elefant+Recon+Dive commander as well as uncounterable OKW arty flares. Allies dont have such combos on their commanders or have them on unviable ones.

Overwatch IS broken because it has wayyyy too much packed into it, and the reason for that is wehraboo cries during 2v2 commander patch tournament stream. Commander was perfectly fine without Sector Assault. Adding it in and then buffing bomb scatter turning it into a combination of auto-targeting IL-2 bomb strike, IL-2 strafe run and IL-2 recon all in one for just 250muni is just a perfect reminder why you should never listen to wehraboos when it comes to balancing.

Reason you'll never see 152mm is Elefant+Recon+Dive commander as well as uncounterable OKW arty flares. Allies dont have such combos on their commanders or have them on unviable ones.

Overwatch IS broken because it has wayyyy too much packed into it, and the reason for that is wehraboo cries during 2v2 commander patch tournament stream. Commander was perfectly fine without Sector Assault. Adding it in and then buffing bomb scatter turning it into a combination of auto-targeting IL-2 bomb strike, IL-2 strafe run and IL-2 recon all in one for just 250mp is just a perfect reminder why you should never listen to wehraboos when it comes to balancing.

Well, as i mentioned above the ability should have higher CP requirements and higher munition costs. I also said that the ability should be replaced if the obvious problems cant be fixed.
Lets keep in mind that we basically agree on this.

But we disagree about the role of the leFH. Its true that Axis factions have powerful tools to counter them but this is also true the other way around. USF and UK can build Sextons / Priests who counter howies very well. Soviets can just use "combined arms commander" who have recon planes and bombing run. With that combo you can also destroy every howie.

I just think that the mod team did an amazing job with the new Overwatch commander.
The only thing that needs adjustments is Sector assault.

LeFH is not the problem, doctrine was okay balance wise until later iteration of commander revamp mod when buffed Sector Assault was added in, all the good stuff doctrine got was balanced by the fact it lacked offmap strike like Fortification doc, then this abomination was added in, this turned Overwatch in the purest and most broken form of cancer in team games.

Also no UKF commander got plane/recon ability combined with offmap (no sexton commander does not count), soviet combined arms is not viable due to lack of tanks which are must-have for team games. Only USF can deal with axis howies same way Wehr and OKW can deal with 152mm.

Well, as i mentioned above the ability should have higher CP requirements and higher munition costs. I also said that the ability should be replaced if the obvious problems cant be fixed.
Lets keep in mind that we basically agree on this.

But we disagree about the role of the leFH. Its true that Axis factions have powerful tools to counter them but this is also true the other way around. USF and UK can build Sextons / Priests who counter howies very well. Soviets can just use "combined arms commander" who have recon planes and bombing run. With that combo you can also destroy every howie.

I just think that the mod team did an amazing job with the new Overwatch commander.
The only thing that needs adjustments is Sector assault.

Lefh isn't the problem, T3 defending it is in 1vs1. Overwatch could be renamed Overthetop today...

Whoever had it used against them in the testing grounds would have noticed how broken it is surley? I noticed the first time it was used against me and saw how BS it was as did thr majority of other people.

So then the responsibility was on everyone in the community (except you)? Its everyone elses fault for not testing this ability properly (except you)? Im fine if you want to complain because this ability is broken (the feedback is very much welcomed; better late than never), but I do take issue when you act like it was other peoples fault when you yourself did absolutely nothing. Fine if you dont want to test stuff, but dont act upset when other people follow in your very own footsteps and a broken abiliy makes it through as a result. Dont complain about a problem that you're a part of.

As for someone surely realizing the ability is broken, its a high cp ability, with a high munitions cost. It probably gets tested/used less than once per game on average (games ending before high enough cp, people using their muni elsewhere). Sometimes its not going to do a lot. Then in the cases where it does do a lot, anyone testing has to assess whether this is due to the ability being too strong, the ability not being played around properly, them simply underestimating the ability and being caught off guard, or any other number of reasons. Given all of that, I dont think its surprising the ability made it through.

Go ahead and look through the feedback forums. Find me a single post in which a user has said they actually tested sector assault, claimed its too strong, and listed why its too strong or what is wrong with it. Then find me another person who agrees with this post and its reasons (to show its not just a one off post by some biased player or someone who had an unlucky experience with the ability). The feedback just wasn't there (maybe because people act like its everyones responsibility to test stuff...besides their own).

Could not agree more. People had the chance to test the latest version of the mod for weeks but you barely saw commander revamp games on the servers.
Now users bitch against exactly the people who invested their free time to make this game better. And its a lot better with the new commanders!
It would also help to set things into perspective: We have 10 revamp commanders who also have some new abilities / units. We are discussing exactly 2 op abilities (sector assault / soviet at arty) which can and will be fixed.
New commanders will come too in the not so distant future. Im looking forward to the feedback thread - maybe the guys who complain now can be found there and give constructive feedback when it matters.

Last night I played a team game (4v4) on Port of Hamburg and two of these abilities were called back to back.

Fun fact, they also target and bomb fuel caches apparently.

It took way too long for the ability to clear out, and even after it had, the planes re-acquired my units. I had retreated 3 squads to base, but quickly moved them AWAY From the base structure because I figured they were going to be bombed there, sure enough they were.

I dunno, I think it should be changed so the targeted area is what is bombed and not individual units in it. By all means, have the planes suppress based on target + track, but the bombs themselves should be based on the area of the call-in.

If the bombs must persist with the tracking option then something has to be changed.

BTW, 3 of the 4 people in that game were using the commander + ability (the 4th being wehrmacht).

It is very clearly overperforming.

I understand that the AT overwatch for soviets is also overperforming, but that one at least has the limitation that once you leave you're safe. With Sector Assault, even a full retreat from one end of the map to your base isn't... in fact it can mean that your massed retreated units all get cluster-wiped.

Not that I think balance = both sides get broken OP shit, but my point is that there's only so much one can do.

On port of Hamburg and other maps like it that sector assault basically means that area is completely off limits and if you so much as stoke the ire of the planes by exposing yourself, you'll get insta-gibbed after. AA was out, it does not effectively counter it unless you specifically shoot the loiter from outside the circle very meticulously. In any other game I'd agree that's fine, but that's not really how things work in CoH2.

If the ability is working as intended, and it has 2 stages, the UI should have 2 stages.
First stage would work as it currently does.
Once it enters second stage, it should no longer show the large circle, but display the unit that is being targeted, either by highlighting, or show a blip on the map. Another possibility is to simply show exactly where the bomb will be dropped, as is the case with abilities like Air Supremacy with the Brits.

Other abilities do things like highlighting the map to show you exactly where potential attack comes in to let the user manage RNG. Sector assault as it stands does not do a good job of this.

It isn't that simple. Loiter abilities (sturmovik, ju-87, p47 and so on) make a few consecutive passes, and each pass has target acquisition and attack phase. In effect, when the first phase of first pass ends, it is still relevant to show the range, as the same range will be used in first phase of the second pass. It gives you a chance to run out of the cicrcle before the beginning of second pass.

As for marking the targetted vehicle/unit I would advise against that. The main purpose of loiter abilities is area denial. Showing the targettet unit would work against that. What is more, it could work as a noob trap, giving players false sense of security when there is still another pass to go.

To put it in simple words, the circle is there to tell you that you should run out of there and come back when the circle goes away. That is the purpose of both ability and UI component. Which means the UI gives you pretty much all the information you really need.

I was simply answering your question on how I would change the UI to make it less misleading.
I understand how the game works, as well as how loiter usually behaves. You don't have to repeat yourself.

Suggesting things which are not feasible to implement doesn't move us forward.
Welp, you keep making bad assumptions (see below).

The problem with sector assault is that even though mechanically it behaves the same as other loiters, it doesn't "feel" that way in game due to the potency of the bombing run. Other abilities might wipe a single unit even when it behaves unpredictably, but sector assault has the potential to wipe the whole army in an instant. On top of that, it breaks one of the "rules" in that AOE bombing run abilities should not be able to be dropped inside the base, especially without vision. I know that the ability itself can't be used inside the base, but in practice, not only does the bombing run happen in base, it can happen even when the ability is used somewhere else on the map. This also happens without any indication as to how to evade it for the affected player.

The problem with Sector assault is that it's the only loiter plane with a bombing run assigned to it (which i can think off at the moment). Issues which i addressed before.
Any offmap which a big enough AoE can and will hit inside enemy base, specially when the base space if too close to a point or the base been really small.

Edit: just tested it, and you can easily hit south spawn on Langreskaya with Air supremacy.

We have seen other loiter abilities get nerfed over the years for this same reason. Why should sector assault get special treatment when it's the worst offender in being detrimental to the game? Especially when it is an ability that the balance team deemed to be broken mechanically and it's removal was proposed.

It will get nerfed. The thing is to understand what and why it's happening and how to change it.

Bomb dropping mechanics was fixed for Brits' Air Supremacy so that bombs are not dropped in the base, so it is hard to see why the same can't be done.

Because for all that it matters, the old Air suppremacy was an "artillery" attack. Bombing attack on new Air supremacy doesn't lock down targets, it bombs a predefine space based on map layout.

I hardly ever post here or whine about balance, but holy shit. This has to be one of the most imbalanced abilities I've encountered in my entire nearly 5 years playing CoH2.

It's just baffling to me that this got past playtesting. Did people just not test to see if this ability was broken or not?

First off, the duration. It's WAY too long, especially since this isn't something that can be countered with AA or w/e, at least not in my experience. It lasts damn near 3 minutes of 3 bomb strikes that obliterate full health squads and vehicles, it's like multiple stuka nukes going off at the same time and it's incredibly hard to dodge because of the size of the radius.

Second, it routinely strikes targets THROUGH THE FOG OF WAR and BEYOND THE RADIUS even after the recon plane has passed. Just now, I had two shermans wiped that were well outside of the radius, like at least 30m beyond it and they still got hit by the bomb strikes that were targetting a vehicle that was barely inside it, and keep in mind this was also through the fog of war, no enemy units had sight on my tanks.

Every single match it's being abused over and over again and playing allies in team games right now is suffering because of it. You see it every single match, and much like anything that's broken, the players will abuse it until it's fixed.

As for some solutions so I'm not just whining about it:

1) The timing of this needs to be reduced. It should only do one single bomb strike, and the strike itself needs some serious damage reduction, combined with a price reduction. The timing from the moment the ability is activated to when the bombs drop needs to be nerfed a few seconds too, it happens way too fast and players really don't have time to react. Right now it's like a boatload of stuka bombs going off at the same time, multiple times in a row.

2) Maybe make it the planes that drop the bombs vulnerable to AA too?

Let me add this too. The soviet Commisar anti tank arty also needs to be adjusted, though it's far less of an issue than this is right now. Both of those abilities by themselves are determining the outcome of games alone.

Honestly though, this has to be the best commander in the game right now because of how broken it is. Not only do you get a 10Cp ability that is incredibly effective, but you have goliaths, LefHs, and a spammable light infiltration infantry squad. Can't really ask for more than that. For the Fatherland too, it's not broken but it's a solid ability to buff your units during an assault.

It's just baffling to me that this got past playtesting. Did people just not test to see if this ability was broken or not?

The only thing changed about the ability is the scatter. Everything you brought up as an issue is functionally identical to how the ability has been, in live, for the last 2(?) years. So yes, two years of playtesting, and there havent been any serious claims that this ability is broken during that time.