the problem with soviet lategame

Talks cloak whenever they please as long as they are not engaged in combat. They do not require cover and can creep as they see fit you ABSOLUTELY can hunt enemy squishy targets with cloaked rakks.

Talks cloak whenever they please as long as they are not engaged in combat. They do not require cover and can creep as they see fit you ABSOLUTELY can hunt enemy squishy targets with cloaked rakks.

If you're losing Katys to raks, you suck. Raks have 50 range, what do katys have?

then how do they work? i noticed enemy troops dont fire at my raks so long as theyre in yellow or green cover and set to hold fire... i assumed they had a similar stealth ability to snipers...

You'd know if you'd every played OKW, wouldn't you?

So stop lying and go play them to learn how soviet players beat you, if you think a strat is OP, use it and see how you get countered.

You'd know if you'd every played OKW, wouldn't you?

So stop lying and go play them to learn how soviet players beat you, if you think a strat is OP, use it and see how you get countered.

well since you think im lying then whatever believe what you want to believe... i just assumed that it would function like snipers or stormtroopers or jager light infantry

well since you think im lying then whatever believe what you want to believe... i just assumed that it would function like snipers or stormtroopers or jager light infantry

Making balance suggestions out of assumptions..
The essence of this forum

Making balance suggestions out of assumptions..
The essence of this forum

Never read that the camo functioned outside of cover... all i knew was that it had camo and that was it....

Besides the point late game soviet vehicles maybe good but rakatens greatly nullify this advantage... unless rakatens are turned into a proper AT gun instead of a gimmick sov lategame armor will be shutdown with relative ease...

the Problem with soviets isnt the lategame at all
you have amzing vet on your tanks.

the Problem is mostly in the early (if you go for a Building)
or in mid game (when you go 4 cons or such) becouse lv and inf upgrates hit the field
once you get you Kind of managed to get t34/85 or smth simliar out you should be fine


Talking out of a 1vs1 perspective though

I'm going to avoid the argument and instead focus on the point that I noticed brought up -- that soviet troops tend to lose to LMG wielding untis like grens or obers.

For what it's worth, the overwhelming majority of their firepower comes from their LMG, which is only effective when they're stationary, so having even a single point of indirect to cause movement (or nades, or whatever else) is a huge debuff to their offensive ability.

If you run vet 3 penals into vet 3 grens with LMG, there's a good chance you'll drop models before you even begin the engagement proper, and at that point you're at a disadvantage. For that reason it's best to not take that engagement and instead force them to adapt to what's favorable to you.

I realize this advice is useless if the enemy is in defensive footing and is able to counter your own counters (Wehrmacht mortar counter-barring, etc.) but it's something worth trying depending on circumstance.

The other thing is to use smoke to cover your approach, so that when the shooting starts you'll already be barrel stuffing them.

Again, situational at best, but it's stuff that's helped me.

that is until the smoke clears and the mg42 waves, causing all my soldiers to fall prone for fear of brutal German Greetings.

If you're losing Katys to raks, you suck. Raks have 50 range, what do katys have?

Camo? Like... Did you read my post or.....? You can camo them up and creep behind the enemy line. It's not like a pak bud. It could have 20 range and still kill a Katy if the Katy can't see it outside of 10 range.

the Problem with soviets isnt the lategame at all
you have amzing vet on your tanks.

the Problem is mostly in the early (if you go for a Building)
or in mid game (when you go 4 cons or such) becouse lv and inf upgrates hit the field
once you get you Kind of managed to get t34/85 or smth simliar out you should be fine


Talking out of a 1vs1 perspective though

the T-34-85 is doctrinal... which puts us back at square 1... stock soviets have a hard time

I'm going to avoid the argument and instead focus on the point that I noticed brought up -- that soviet troops tend to lose to LMG wielding untis like grens or obers.

For what it's worth, the overwhelming majority of their firepower comes from their LMG, which is only effective when they're stationary, so having even a single point of indirect to cause movement (or nades, or whatever else) is a huge debuff to their offensive ability.

If you run vet 3 penals into vet 3 grens with LMG, there's a good chance you'll drop models before you even begin the engagement proper, and at that point you're at a disadvantage. For that reason it's best to not take that engagement and instead force them to adapt to what's favorable to you.

I realize this advice is useless if the enemy is in defensive footing and is able to counter your own counters (Wehrmacht mortar counter-barring, etc.) but it's something worth trying depending on circumstance.

The other thing is to use smoke to cover your approach, so that when the shooting starts you'll already be barrel stuffing them.

Again, situational at best, but it's stuff that's helped me.

that is until the smoke clears and the mg42 waves, causing all my soldiers to fall prone for fear of brutal German Greetings.

yeah grens vs penals is a bit more even... penals at least hold the line enough for indirect fire to seal the deal... but obers just blow penals out of the water clean... simply because they can fire on the move with an lmg and have ridiculous dps

actually imo penals scale relatively well vs ostheer...grens still outclass them but mortars and flamethrowers can even the indifference... its OKW thats a bitch to deal with without shocks or guards

yeah grens vs penals is a bit more even... penals at least hold the line enough for indirect fire to seal the deal... but obers just blow penals out of the water clean... simply because they can fire on the move with an lmg and have ridiculous dps

actually imo penals scale relatively well vs ostheer...grens still outclass them but mortars and flamethrowers can even the indifference... its OKW thats a bitch to deal with without shocks or guards

Given the timing and investment it's fair for Obers to be shit canning penals, especially when you consider what the same timing and +10mp means for cons and volks. If cloak anywhere raks are addressed I think Obers will be less of an issue. They are designed to be dominant infantry so using vehicles against them of any sort should be the way to go

Camo? Like... Did you read my post or.....? You can camo them up and creep behind the enemy line. It's not like a pak bud. It could have 20 range and still kill a Katy if the Katy can't see it outside of 10 range.

How is an enemy getting cloaked RAKS past your lines? You dont screen with inf before you fire a barrage? RAK is detected at 20 which means all you need is a squad of engies in front of the katy to detect for it. you don't queue a reverse to base order after it fires? Because then it cant get hit by anything whilst it recharges in base.

Given the timing and investment it's fair for Obers to be shit canning penals, especially when you consider what the same timing and +10mp means for cons and volks. If cloak anywhere raks are addressed I think Obers will be less of an issue. They are designed to be dominant infantry so using vehicles against them of any sort should be the way to go

true... ive found that the retreating cloaking rakaten is just simply too cheesy and too good to the point that it negates the lategame soviet armor advantage... maybe just turn it to a cheaper pak 40 clone with 50 range (but providing green cover)... but until then the soviets can never compete in the lategame without doctrines...

The problem with Soviet lategame is that there is simply no lategame without right commanders where actual lategame units are locked
Thats a factional flaw and honestly I hardly see point in Sov now thats USF got revamp that fixed that retarded teching issues.

How is an enemy getting cloaked RAKS past your lines? You dont screen with inf before you fire a barrage? RAK is detected at 20 which means all you need is a squad of engies in front of the katy to detect for it. you don't queue a reverse to base order after it fires? Because then it cant get hit by anything whilst it recharges in base.

Well you see, camo allows units to remain unseen. Follow me so far? OK. So these unseen units that can move without cover and remain unseen can move around unseen. There is literally no way to ensure you have a squad every 20 range across the entire front.

Well you see, camo allows units to remain unseen. Follow me so far? OK. So these unseen units that can move without cover and remain unseen can move around unseen. There is literally no way to ensure you have a squad every 20 range across the entire front.

You're telling me, that someone manages to raketen your katy in the 15 seconds it has to leave base to fire?

You dont need infantry across the hold front, just one squad 50 in front of your katy for the 30 seconds it takes to fire its payload and reverse to the rear, your base sector, where raketens cant be cloaked.

well since you think im lying then whatever believe what you want to believe... i just assumed that it would function like snipers or stormtroopers or jager light infantry

You are lying, you said you play OKW, but you don't know how raketens work, which you would if you'd ever played them.

So, my point stands, play OKW and see how you get countered when you spam raketens and try to "cheese" them.

How is an enemy getting cloaked RAKS past your lines? You dont screen with inf before you fire a barrage? RAK is detected at 20 which means all you need is a squad of engies in front of the katy to detect for it. you don't queue a reverse to base order after it fires? Because then it cant get hit by anything whilst it recharges in base.

Not all frintline is contested at all times and there is zero reason to send your troops to secured sector with no visible opponent in it.
That's kind of RTS basics 101.

You are lying, you said you play OKW, but you don't know how raketens work, which you would if you'd ever played them.

So, my point stands, play OKW and see how you get countered when you spam raketens and try to "cheese" them.

i play okw but i use rakatens like snipers rather than cheesing them around the map in hit and run style gameplay... if OKW rakaten cloak does work like that then theyre even more broken than i previously thought which does not help your position