Arty is utterly broken

+1

Stationary howitzers are totally fine, but it's the mobile arty which can get really annoying on clusterfuck maps (e. g. Semosky, Trois Ponts, Port of Hamburg, Ettelbruck Station etc. etc.)

You will see Stuka, Panzerwerfer, Katyusha, Priests and (next patch) Sexton every single match there... and you cannot really avoid or destroy the mobile arty with how these maps are designed.

Stationary arty is totaly fine? How is anything that can 1 shot multiple squads fine? I've dropped commandos next to them before and planed a demo charge on them, only to have it take less than half its HP off, seems fine to me!

How is it fine that you NEED, to have a comander in your loadout to counter it, if you don't it's simply GG. I emplore you to play as UKF 3v3's and let me know how well you get on when you face OKW arty doctrine.

Stationary is far superior to mobile, theres simply no comparison, they have less HP, have to move close to fire and are slow as a tortoise, not to mention the cost factor......

You simply have to agree its far easier to place something just outside your base and fire away than it is to move something into position, fire and retreat.

So soviet art is op too ? Or is the axis one magically 1000% more durable and 999999% more lethal ?

How is it fine that you NEED, to have a comander in your loadout to counter it, if you don't it's simply GG. I emplore you to play as UKF 3v3's and let me know how well you get on when you face OKW arty doctrine.

The concentrated barrage for 100mun from Royal Artillery doc always destroys the howitzers, especially if u went anvil. Estimated 75% of brit players already use this doctrine in 2v2-4v4 anyway, and after the Commander revamp it's gonna be 90+%

And oh well, you just have to adapt your Commander picks in CoH2. Dont insta lock Vanguard doc every match

Counterpicking has always been in the game and there is nothing wrong with getting punished for using one-sided strats and docs every game

Without touching balance too hard a limit of 2 for all commader-arties seems fair?

The concentrated barrage for 100mun from Royal Artillery doc always destroys the howitzers, especially if u went anvil. Estimated 75% of brit players already use this doctrine in 2v2-4v4 anyway, and after the Commander revamp it's gonna be 90+%

And oh well, you just have to adapt your Commander picks in CoH2. Dont insta lock Vanguard doc every match

Counterpicking has always been in the game and there is nothing wrong with getting punished for using one-sided strats and docs every game

I don't use vanguard, it was the commando doctrine, and its a big of a fallacy to assume I use the same commander, the same stats and the same playstyle every single game.

UKF almost rely on commandos against OKW, tommies can't keep up. Are you are saying I shouldnt always do the same strat but then, do the same strat by going royal arty in turn making my infantry combat suffer?

Again, the issues is that arty is overperforming, massivley infact try ignore everything about how if you have X it can be countered by it. That's irrelevant when the crocodile was OP noone said well, it has a bad gun so just chase it with tanks, its fine, they fixed it.

Stationary arty is totaly fine? How is anything that can 1 shot multiple squads fine? I've dropped commandos next to them before and planed a demo charge on them, only to have it take less than half its HP off, seems fine to me!

How is it fine that you NEED, to have a comander in your loadout to counter it, if you don't it's simply GG. I emplore you to play as UKF 3v3's and let me know how well you get on when you face OKW arty doctrine.

Stationary is far superior to mobile, theres simply no comparison, they have less HP, have to move close to fire and are slow as a tortoise, not to mention the cost factor......

You simply have to agree its far easier to place something just outside your base and fire away than it is to move something into position, fire and retreat.

You could just drive up with a cromwell and shoot it dead.

I rather have hummel than the LefH if i'm Honest.

If i see someone having Fortifications, wait for the doctrine choice.

Cost Factor, yeah something that can't move and therefore is easy to kill, should not cost 115 or 90 Fuel like Priest and Sexton.

Also you can move up, fire, and retreat with a shift que.

I don't use vanguard, it was the commando doctrine, and its a big of a fallacy to assume I use the same commander, the same stats and the same playstyle every single game.

UKF almost rely on commandos against OKW, tommies can't keep up. Are you are saying I shouldnt always do the same strat but then, do the same strat by going royal arty in turn making my infantry combat suffer?

Again, the issues is that arty is overperforming, massivley infact try ignore everything about how if you have X it can be countered by it. That's irrelevant when the crocodile was OP noone said well, it has a bad gun so just chase it with tanks, its fine, they fixed it.

Sections dominate OKW Infantry mostly. Don't let them get close and you are good to go. Crocodile was very strong with it's flames, which wasn't the real issue, the issue was it just never got penetrated by AT Guns, fausts still love to bounce from it.

Everything about lefh is fine, except the OP Counter Barrage.
Learn to counter-pick and coordinate with teammates.
And mobility -> stationary

You could just drive up with a cromwell and shoot it dead.

I rather have hummel than the LefH if i'm Honest.

If i see someone having Fortifications, wait for the doctrine choice.

Cost Factor, yeah something that can't move and therefore is easy to kill, should not cost 115 or 90 Fuel like Priest and Sexton.

Also you can move up, fire, and retreat with a shift que.

These types of comments are just stupid, I can also go up to it with an AEC and kill it too! and?

Well you can't can you, Schwer, mines, fausts, raks, tanks, shrecks all stand it your way.

Yes I know you can shift move but the vehicle still has to move into range, shoot and reverse, which was my point, you have to put mobile ones in danger to fire them.

It's not easy to kill though is it. Isolated and alone with no interuptions, its easy, but demos were the same, easy to kill (If you completely forget everything else about them) yet they get a nerf.

But again, no matter how easy to kill it is, or how easy to counter it is, the issue is, its OP. Its damage is incredibly high and its scatter isnt that bad even in FOW at range. Why do you think its so prominent in team games?

These types of comments are just stupid, I can also go up to it with an AEC and kill it too! and?

Well you can't can you, Schwer, mines, fausts, raks, tanks, shrecks all stand it your way.

Yes I know you can shift move but the vehicle still has to move into range, shoot and reverse, which was my point, you have to put mobile ones in danger to fire them.

It's not easy to kill though is it. Isolated and alone with no interuptions, its easy, but demos were the same, easy to kill (If you completely forget everything else about them) yet they get a nerf.

But again, no matter how easy to kill it is, or how easy to counter it is, the issue is, its OP. Its damage is incredibly high and its scatter isnt that bad even in FOW at range. Why do you think its so prominent in team games?

Yea.. i'll just ask what my fellow comrade DonnieChan would ask now.. Playercard please?

( https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/viewBoard/0/steamid/76561198121057184 )

And of course there's certain risks with taking it out without drops. But just bring a sapper with you then, clear the path from mines. Sounds Stupid to you? Maybe you lack the skill to pull of maneuvers like this, because you don't have any idea about when it's the right timing for that to do?

You don't move Priests and Sexton into Danger, because you use them from behind your lines.

As we can see on your playercard, you have never played Teamgames as OKW or Ostheer. Maybe you should, to see how OP and Broken Sextons and Priests are then, because those doctrines also have a OffMapDrop in addition, obliterating OKW trucks with one Barrage and the offmap drop. Ostheer weapon Teams get wiped on regular Basis, because the shots come way faster than from a LefH.

The Damage of Priests for example is that high, that and elefant or JT take like 25-35% of health damage.

In 3v3 and 4v4, your LefH18 most likely get's killed after 2 barrages from an OffMapDrop. If not, there's still the other way. And if you can't pull it off, you get punished for your decision not to take a drop with you or choose the doctrine, and uhm.. that's how it should be. Deal with it.

So please keep your mouth quiet, if you don't really have any comparison. Call me stupid, call me a stubborn fuckhead, whatever.

All i can say is, that this is a l2p issue with you, once again.

We can continue this, or you just accept the fact, that you are biased in your opinion, and your conclusions have no real solid background.

Have a nice day and git good

If u just played a different faction for a change like soviets, u can recon and one click LeFH's out of the game, if u get rekted by one, its your own fault, stop only play brits Latch and u might get some l2p MVGame

Yea.. i'll just ask what my fellow comrade DonnieChan would ask now.. Playercard please?

( https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/viewBoard/0/steamid/76561198121057184 )

And of course there's certain risks with taking it out without drops. But just bring a sapper with you then, clear the path from mines. Sounds Stupid to you? Maybe you lack the skill to pull of maneuvers like this, because you don't have any idea about when it's the right timing for that to do?

You don't move Priests and Sexton into Danger, because you use them from behind your lines.

As we can see on your playercard, you have never played Teamgames as OKW or Ostheer. Maybe you should, to see how OP and Broken Sextons and Priests are then, because those doctrines also have a OffMapDrop in addition, obliterating OKW trucks with one Barrage and the offmap drop. Ostheer weapon Teams get wiped on regular Basis, because the shots come way faster than from a LefH.

The Damage of Priests for example is that high, that and elefant or JT take like 25-35% of health damage.

In 3v3 and 4v4, your LefH18 most likely get's killed after 2 barrages from an OffMapDrop. If not, there's still the other way. And if you can't pull it off, you get punished for your decision not to take a drop with you or choose the doctrine, and uhm.. that's how it should be. Deal with it.

So please keep your mouth quiet, if you don't really have any comparison. Call me stupid, call me a stubborn fuckhead, whatever.

All i can say is, that this is a l2p issue with you, once again.

We can continue this, or you just accept the fact, that you are biased in your opinion, and your conclusions have no real solid background.

Have a nice day and git good

You missed the part where I stated that the thread is about the damage it does, not about what faction I play. I dont need to play as OKW or OST to understand that a arty shell salvo is far too devastating and frequent or one that requires me to HAVE to go a specific doctrine JUST to counter that 1 doctrinal ability that they use.

"You don't move Priests and Sexton into Danger, because you use them from behind your lines."

Yeah, if you are using it to defend a point you already own, using them to attack a structure however, not true.

" But just bring a sapper with you then, clear the path from mines. Sounds Stupid to you? Maybe you lack the skill to pull of maneuvers like this, because you don't have any idea about when it's the right timing for that to do?"

Funny you should say that, this was an argument for demo charges, see where I am going with that?

So, rather than this boring back and forth with situations that are all hypothetical and hyperbole, do you think its OK for an ability to one shot multiple squads frequently (10 shots every 40 seconds), inside the FOW, with the ability to build several of them, requiring a hard counter to stop it and if you dont have the right commander even in your load out, it being GG?

You missed the part where I stated that the thread is about the damage it does, not about what faction I play. I dont need to play as OKW or OST to understand that a arty shell salvo is far too devastating and frequent or one that requires me to HAVE to go a specific doctrine JUST to counter that 1 doctrinal ability that they use.

"You don't move Priests and Sexton into Danger, because you use them from behind your lines."

Yeah, if you are using it to defend a point you already own, using them to attack a structure however, not true.

" But just bring a sapper with you then, clear the path from mines. Sounds Stupid to you? Maybe you lack the skill to pull of maneuvers like this, because you don't have any idea about when it's the right timing for that to do?"

Funny you should say that, this was an argument for demo charges, see where I am going with that?

So, rather than this boring back and forth with situations that are all hypothetical and hyperbole, do you think its OK for an ability to one shot multiple squads frequently (10 shots every 40 seconds), inside the FOW, with the ability to build several of them, requiring a hard counter to stop it and if you dont have the right commander even in your load out, it being GG?

Priest and Sexton do it way better. LefH18 is not OP, if you hear it shoot, don't move to the area to be save.

Goodbye :-D

...
The LEFH is the same for OST ...

In your opinion is Lefh only broken or is the ML20 similarly broken?

In your opinion what are the differences between ML20 and LeFH?

Isn't it mainly the problem in huge multiplayer matches? A limit to max 2 units would be fine?

In your opinion is Lefh only broken or is the ML20 similarly broken?

In your opinion what are the differences between ML20 and LeFH?

All arty is broken due to the sheer amount of damage it does when it hits with no immediate risk and counters requiring a specific doctrine or luck.

Make enemy retreat, arty base. It only takes the first shot to hit where the group point is and its a dead squad.

Relic seem to say one thing but do a complete opposite, they dont want cheese 1HK so remove mine killing squads, kill Demos, slow down the AVRE shoot timer, make the Sturmtiger need to actually see the units, lower KT's wipig potential but keep arty the same BS that it is.

All arty is broken due to the sheer amount of damage it does when it hits with no immediate risk and counters requiring a specific doctrine or luck.

Make enemy retreat, arty base. It only takes the first shot to hit where the group point is and its a dead squad.

Relic seem to say one thing but do a complete opposite, they dont want cheese 1HK so remove mine killing squads, kill Demos, slow down the AVRE shoot timer, make the Sturmtiger need to actually see the units, lower KT's wipig potential but keep arty the same BS that it is.

Ok we are making some progress now.

The reason arty exist in the game is so prevent defensive turtleing game. So what exactly would you propose to counter that king of static game-play?

Let's keep the discussion civil.

I completely agree with the fact that howitzer artillery is deadly when it hits. It is also very RNG-heavy, thus it's somewhat frustrating to play against.

However, not only are howitzers in no immediate danger when they fire. Regular mortars and light artillery (e.g. leIG, Pack Howie) are also in no immediate danger.

The vast majority of howitzer artillery is locked into a Commander so needing to pick a Commander to counter it easily is valid.

If the notion is to make one-hit-kill harder to pull off, it already is. Howitzers get massive penalties firing into Fog of War, and recon assets (aside from broken Artillery Flares and IR HT, but that is a separate issue) can be countered. Howitzers are already so inaccurate that they are only reliable against stationary targets.

If you wish to reduce the damage howitzer artillery deals, I assume that you would like to avoid the slightest instance of one-hit-kill from an artillery shell. If that is the case, why would you build howitzers anyway? Mortars are already capable of one-hit-kill (of course, the scenario is just as RNG dependent as a lucky howitzer shell).

Thus, I would argue that howitzer artillery is fine as it currently is. They serve as a powerful counter to static defensive playstyles.

I emplore you to play as UKF 3v3's and let me know how well you get on when you face OKW arty doctrine.

So your team has 9 commanders and no one has a counter? That's strange, or should i say "wrong from your end"?

Ok we are making some progress now.

The reason arty exist in the game is so prevent defensive turtleing game. So what exactly would you propose to counter that king of static game-play?

Bonus damage vs structures.

Mortars require you to get a lot closer than a howitzer and they only 1hk if a squad is low on health, too many times I have had a full health squad moving into battle for it to only be wiped out by a stray arty shot.

They fire very fast too which adds to the problems when vet gets involved, removing 1hk on full health squads would be a start IMO then adjust from there.