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russian armor

Mechanized Assault big impact early game?

27 Sep 2013, 05:00 AM
#81
avatar of DietBrownie

Posts: 308

make them like volks. 240 manpower. except leader gets g43 and squad gets k98. with the upgrade option for 50 muni to get mp40's and leader gets stg44.


I don't think that's a good idea, that would make them completely better than grenadiers except they don't have a panzerfaust. Relic intended the Agrens to have less firepower but more survivalist unit so german players can skip t1, but they really didn't test the unit.
27 Sep 2013, 06:00 AM
#82
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Sep 2013, 04:09 AMDerBaer
So when soviets were using the clown car cheese, it was so bad that all Ostheer players wanted the the M3 to be nerfed.

Now, Ostheer gets Assgrens and all of a sudden, it's the counter against that and totally fine. I always hated the clown car start, but now I pretty much have to go for that build. Seriously, what the hell? At least Ostheer has to sacrifice valuable munitions to get them now...


I agree and think the M3 turns the game into a teching and microing race rather than planing and executing attacks/flank.
27 Sep 2013, 06:49 AM
#83
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

From what I've read the reason for the changes is to make them come in the game a bit later and due to ammunition cost you're supposed to sacrifice some of the upgrades or have them latter.
I didn't have any problems playing against them as flamers or maxim support helped but maybe there is something more that Relic didn't like in overall balance.
I think this unit is still strong even if you won't have easy map dominance in the first couple of minutes.

I wouldn't call it a nerf but it's really a shame that'd happened as I loved to punish German player who went AG heavy with early vehicles. Also army built of AG scaled badly into the late game.
27 Sep 2013, 17:23 PM
#84
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896

From what I've read the reason for the changes is to make them come in the game a bit later and due to ammunition cost you're supposed to sacrifice some of the upgrades or have them latter.
I didn't have any problems playing against them as flamers or maxim support helped but maybe there is something more that Relic didn't like in overall balance.
I think this unit is still strong even if you won't have easy map dominance in the first couple of minutes.

I wouldn't call it a nerf but it's really a shame that'd happened as I loved to punish German player who went AG heavy with early vehicles. Also army built of AG scaled badly into the late game.


The ammo increase messes up many things for the german player, they could have achieved that by increasing cost a little and increasing cool down significantly.
27 Sep 2013, 17:29 PM
#85
avatar of MileWideThigh

Posts: 43

Just raise the cooldown. Problem solved.
28 Sep 2013, 04:43 AM
#86
avatar of c r u C e

Posts: 525

Or swap them with Panzer Grenadiers,don't know why the better unit is non-doctrinal though,weird logic here...
28 Sep 2013, 05:56 AM
#87
avatar of Turtle

Posts: 401

The ammo increase is supposed to mess the upgrade choices for a German player.

But, I agree, there may be other ways.

Another thing not mentioned is that the maxim also works against AGrens, not quite as well as the M3, since it's more positional and can be flanked (although with difficulty due to the Maxim's quick setup speeds).

What AGrens used to do is completely shut down a conscript only opening. Say what you will about that classic opening, but having to build a building that early to counter a unit can railroad a Soviet player due to the way Soviet teching works. It's also a more significant delay in capping than it would be for Germans to build a build, or not build one since German buildings build fast.

It's a complex issue and is certainly not over.
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