King Tiger - Is it worth buying?

I don't really think that an unsupported heavy tank being countered by a tank destroyer is a problem. That is how it is supposed to be.

I'd agree if the price gap wasn't major. The firefly at 440MP 155F is just over half the price of the KT, but entirely nullifies it in any way if the KT doesn't have those raks there. A unit which costs 55% of another should not be shutting the more expensive unit down completely. You should be using relativley equal resources to engage your opponet to gain equal footing.

ISU, AVRE, elefant, croc... all these units I would say are slow and need support in varying levels, in the case of ISU even more. So why should KT be any different?

Pershing is the only heavy that can zap around and nuke everything, but most people consider it OP. IS-2 has KT armour with decent mobility but if you give it the maingun of the KT I would say it would be OP for sure.

If there's an issue with KT I would say some of vet is a bit mediocre, spearhead for instance could use a small buff.

I'd agree that those units need support in varying levels, but thats the key, varying. The croc can operate against most targets once these commander buffs go through. It'll have a full damage main gun and a flamer to clear AT guns. 2x ISU was used in the qualifier tourney last weekend by Rutra and dzzara against Hans and DevM. Hans and DevM didn't have the Ele and essentially couldn't counter them. I remember one of those ISUs walking into 3x raks and simply just drove away because of bounces and the single shot it landed vs the 3 AT guns. People used to complain about how the KT could walk into 2x AT guns and just clear them, but somehow that was different.

Point is, if a KT has desiginated support it can somewhat work, if it doesn't then it's practically unusable. With many other heavies they can operate alone. Not really gonna talk about the Pershing, it's hilariously OP but receives no nerfs.

You should be using relativley equal resources to engage your opponet to gain equal footing.

If 440mp and 155f (+lets say 150muni for tulips) isn't equal to deal with a heavy tank than what is? This is poor logic because I would say the FF is overpriced if anything, the jadpanzer for example can counter a Croc and is not only cheaper in cost but with better DPS and popcap too.

The 55% argument would hold water if TD's could do anything but kill tanks, but all they need to push them off is panzerfausts or AT nades. Yes your paying a big chunk of extra fuel but the KT kills a lot more stuff, if you are going to compare the overpricing of a tank it would make more sense to me to compare to a stock churchill or IS-2. Not a TD that people already consider bad compared to jackson...

If 440mp and 155f (+lets say 150muni for tulips) isn't equal to deal with a heavy tank than what is? This is poor logic because I would say the FF is overpriced if anything, the jadpanzer for example can counter a Croc and is not only cheaper in cost but with better DPS and popcap too.

Correct! But the croc pays for that power while having the ability to engage both infantry and armor with its (yet I say terrible) main gun and flamethrower. Although it should be much better post commander patch. But the KT is tied for most expensive unit ingame but it's AI is as RNGfested as the IS2, and the AT is decent when someone decides to push the KT within its range. But if the AI is so inconsistant, why would I not just purchase a panther for reliable AT on a more mobile platform?

Correct! But the croc pays for that power while having the ability to engage both infantry and armor with its (yet I say terrible) main gun and flamethrower. Although it should be much better post commander patch. But the KT is tied for most expensive unit ingame but it's AI is as RNGfested as the IS2, and the AT is decent when someone decides to push the KT within its range. But if the AI is so inconsistant, why would I not just purchase a panther for reliable AT on a more mobile platform?

So what do you suggest? Putting FF up to 500mp 185fuel?

KT I wouldn't say is a RNG fest, if it is standing still you will gib 3 rifle models each round pretty reliably. IS-2 is really a lot worse in that department (until vet 2) but I wouldn't say that it's a bad tank either, IS-2 for example can shut down puma and P4 meta pretty well and still has a use.

Likewise KT can shut down vanilla churchills or other heavies while gibing inf, sure I could build a panther but then you're not getting the wipe or lock down potential. KT offers you than ability to wipe inf and AT guns while taking on big tanks, panther gives you decent mg damage up close but nothing compared to a KT vs inf.

So what do you suggest? Putting FF up to 500mp 185fuel?

KT I wouldn't say is a RNG fest, if it is standing still you will gib 3 rifle models each round pretty reliably. IS-2 is really a lot worse in that department (until vet 2) but I wouldn't say that it's a bad tank either, IS-2 for example can shut down puma and P4 meta pretty well and still has a use.

Likewise KT can shut down vanilla churchills or other heavies while gibing inf, sure I could build a panther but then you're not getting the wipe or lock down potential. KT offers you than ability to wipe inf and AT guns while taking on big tanks, panther gives you decent mg damage up close but nothing compared to a KT vs inf.

It doesn't gib models consistantly, that's the problem. If it did it should currently be used since nothing was changed in its nerf other than scatter. It isn't though since it requires all techs and is expensive. It just doesn't have the shock value for that price.

Personally I'd rather give it pershing scatter and call it a day. TDs could crush it pre nerf and they crush it post nerf. People just didn't like how it insta gibbed full 5-6 man squads. They could've lowered the OHK radius and changed the AoE profile which would've been fine. They do a lot of heavy handed nerfs/buffs on the team and it isn't always neccesary.

I don't really think that an unsupported heavy tank being countered by a tank destroyer is a problem. That is how it is supposed to be.

Actually the Tiger will just chase down the SU85/Firefly and the IS2 will just chase after the JP4/Stug. The KT basically has the mobility of an engine damaged vehicle so being perma-kited is uniquely a KT problem.

It doesn't gib models consistantly, that's the problem. If it did it should currently be used since nothing was changed in its nerf other than scatter. It isn't though since it requires all techs and is expensive. It just doesn't have the shock value for that price.

Personally I'd rather give it pershing scatter and call it a day. TDs could crush it pre nerf and they crush it post nerf. People just didn't like how it insta gibbed full 5-6 man squads. They could've lowered the OHK radius and changed the AoE profile which would've been fine. They do a lot of heavy handed nerfs/buffs on the team and it isn't always neccesary.

I don't really agree at all. The KT has massive shock value. If my opponent ever builds a KT, I'd be incredibly shocked.

If he's losing, he basically spent all his resources on an elaborate and expensive white flag. If the game was tied, he basically threw the game away. If he was in the lead by a little, he basically threw the game away. If he was dominating so much that he could throw 760mp and 280fuel away, and was able to dominate the late game with only 74 pop cap, I'd have surrendered by that point anyway.

Hence, one would argue that the KT offers massive and unrivalled shock value, especially in 1v1 games.

Good meme, lol

I don't really agree at all. The KT has massive shock value. If my opponent ever builds a KT, I'd be incredibly shocked.

If he's losing, he basically spent all his resources on an elaborate and expensive white flag. If the game was tied, he basically threw the game away. If he was in the lead by a little, he basically threw the game away. If he was dominating so much that he could throw 760mp and 280fuel away, and was able to dominate the late game with only 74 pop cap, I'd have surrendered by that point anyway.

Hence, one would argue that the KT offers massive and unrivalled shock value, especially in 1v1 games.

gotmethere

To be make the KT more reliable:

- give it back 45 range...even 50 range wouldnt be op
- make the turret turn faster
- give it smoke for HIGH price ( thats right: high! mininum 60 muni)

My take away from this thread, is that buying the KT is "situational" being never ever do it. I've had the opportunity to play a few games where I don't save fuel for it and build a panther and PZIV instead, which is in every sense of the word, more effective and versatile.

To those (the majority) who unironically answered yes or situationally in the poll, would you please provide situations were the KT is more useful than a single panther?

Also, the KT cannot dodge tulips.

Thanks

To be make the KT more reliable:

- give it back 45 range...even 50 range wouldnt be op
- make the turret turn faster
- give it smoke for HIGH price ( thats right: high! mininum 60 muni)

Smoke wouldn't help it, its too slow to escape anyway, the enemy will just attack ground.

Smoke wouldn't help it, its too slow to escape anyway, the enemy will just attack ground.

but it makes it a lot harder for the oponent to give all his AT guns and TD the right ground attack... so it ends in only 1 TD shots on you instead 2 AT guns and 1-2 TDs shot on u..

375 ----> 400 armour

This.

My take away from this thread, is that buying the KT is "situational" being never ever do it. I've had the opportunity to play a few games where I don't save fuel for it and build a panther and PZIV instead, which is in every sense of the word, more effective and versatile.

To those (the majority) who unironically answered yes or situationally in the poll, would you please provide situations were the KT is more useful than a single panther?

Also, the KT cannot dodge tulips.

Thanks

I already explained it to you. Maybe read? Also why do you compare the KT to the Panther now? They are completly different in every single way possible.

A vet 3 pershing doesnt add anything to its wipe potential, so why are you bringing it up.

Vet 3 is -30% scatter next to -50% reload I think. Less scatter means higher chance for wipes per shot

missclick

Vet 3 is -30% scatter next to -50% reload I think. Less scatter means higher chance for wipes per shot

M26 Pershing Heavy Tank
+30% Acceleration/Deceleration
+20% turret rotation,Crew will defend tank with Grenades
+20% accuracy,-50% reload

M26 Pershing Heavy Tank
+30% Acceleration/Deceleration
+20% turret rotation,Crew will defend tank with Grenades
+20% accuracy,-50% reload

Is there any real difference between more accuracy and less scatter?

A Brummbar AoE profile would make it a very strong AI vehicle. Vet 0 Spearhead would give it a lot of utility, given Spearhead gives its MGs suppression.