Simple UKF Base Howitzer Rework

The UKF Base Howitzers are currently their mobile indirect fire option: upgrade an Infantry Section for 40 munitions, then spend another 45 munitions each time you fire.

A unique red flare goes down, then the howitzers fire a long barrage. The shells are pretty powerful, so a team weapon that doesn't reposition is very likely to get wiped, but the barrage is so long that you've got plenty of time to retreat.

It works, sort of. Even the T1 barrage tends to collapse buildings, making it work as a denial tool. It's powerful and useful, but the prohibitive cost discourages overuse. There's just one problem.



The role of indirect fire is to displace entrenched infantry and team weapons, particularly HMGs. That's pretty much the whole reason UKF needs mobile indirect in the first place.

And the base howitzers are next to useless at this.




A mortar has about 70 range, allowing it to outrange and barrage HMGs, which have 45 range. UKF artillery flares? 30 range.

Try to use a flare on an MG42 from the front (as a mortar does) and you'll get suppressed before you can throw the flare. When you get suppressed, your range drops to 20.

This means to actually use the expensive flares in place of a mortar, you've got to flank the HMG. And if you've flanked the HMG, you don't need the flare. You've already displaced the HMG.



For the UKF base howitzers to function as indirect fire rather than as a very expensive area denial grenade, they need something approximating the following changes:

• Give the Infantry Section variant of the flares at least 50 range. A mortar has 70.
  
  
• Disable the ability entirely when suppressed. Otherwise, the range extension turns it into a get-out-of-jail-free card against HMGs, which was the whole problem with USF Rifle smoke.

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For the UKF base howitzers to function as indirect fire rather than as a very expensive area denial grenade, they need something approximating the following changes:

• Give the Infantry Section variant of the flares at least 50 range. A mortar has 70.
  ...

A HMG might have a range of 45 but is only see 35, a Pyrotechnic Tommy sees 40, going to 50 with vet 1. Being able to bomb the enemy cheaply, accurately early in the game while having vision from range 50 will simply be broken.

A Pyrotechnics Tommie can simply scout the area and not walk straight into HMG cone.

Being able to bomb the enemy cheaply, accurately early in the game while having vision from range 50 will simply be broken.

It's called a mortar.

Here's my idea from the other topic:

Base howitzers become upgrades for their buildings, when a building is built the 25 pounder is decrewed, requiring you to "unlock" it in order for the crew to pop up and start crewing it. Then the structure gets a "Barrage" ability for that 25 pounder. Each gun can fire individually.

That or the HQ gets another upgrade which unlocks both of the howitzers and there is a single commander ability to make both of them fire a barrage similar at the moment to the Pyro IS's flare ability combined with the King Tiger's call in ability. You will basically have access to it when you choose a commander.

The Pyrotechnics upgrade is then removed from the IS and instead replaced with a Recon section upgrade. Gives the IS a Scoped Lee-Enfield and a snipe ability, like in the original CoH. Cheap ammo based alternative to the British .55 boys AT Rifle Sniper that costs 360 mp.

The issue with that is it's two indestructable howitzers. The munitions cost, while heavy, does serve as a decent limiter on the base guns.

The problem is they're infantry-based flares that you can't fire at a suppression platform from outside its range. With only 30 range, they're effectively direct fire.

Ukf has many perks to hold its ground effectively. Add easy enemy defense displacement and you get a broken faction.
Maybe if pyrotommies could also request smoke from the howitzers and no ther change it would be better

It's called a mortar.

does mortar have 50 vision?

Why not simply redesign UKF along with USF and be done with. It going to save allot of balance work...

does mortar have 50 vision?

Who puts a mortar on the front line?

Unless you're playing at a fairly low level, units spot for each other.

Firing range is what matters for indirect fire. Sight range is almost completely irrelevant.

Who puts a mortar on the front line?

Unless you're playing at a fairly low level, units spot for each other.

Firing range is what matters for indirect fire. Sight range is almost completely irrelevant.

I think that the point Vipper is trying to make is that with your changes it WOULD still be a get out of jail card.

There's no possible way that a Pyro Tommy is going to fall into hmg range anyway, so making it cast beyond that range, suppress denial or not, make the whole thing abusable.

Who puts a mortar on the front line?

Unless you're playing at a fairly low level, units spot for each other.

Firing range is what matters for indirect fire. Sight range is almost completely irrelevant.

So you are suggesting that a single infantry squad should be able to do what a mortar and spotter can do while it can also upgrades with dual bren or piats and fight. And all that because although it can see further way from hmg it fall in arc and get suppressed.

Once more if USF are going to have a rework simply rework all faction and stop wasting resource and time.

I think that the point Vipper is trying to make is that with your changes it WOULD still be a get out of jail card.

There's no possible way that a Pyro Tommy is going to fall into hmg range anyway, so making it cast beyond that range, suppress denial or not, make the whole thing abusable.

It makes it serve its actual function: to barrage an HMG out of position. The whole idea of an indirect fire weapon is you can attack stationary targets from beyond their range.

The flares currently require you to flank a properly set up HMG to throw them, and if you can do that you don't need the flares in the first place.

It makes it serve its actual function: to barrage an HMG out of position. The whole idea of an indirect fire weapon is you can attack stationary targets from beyond their range.

The flares currently require you to flank a properly set up HMG to throw them, and if you can do that you don't need the flares in the first place.

Tommies are notoriously bad at flanking due to the very low moving modifiers.

Flares do not simply serve as HMG counter since they are good at taking out structures and forcing enemy units to reposition.

Being able to spot and barrage at range 50 would force the opponent to eventually attack the UKF position, when UKF are already very good at defending and Ostheer quite bad in attacking.
There is little need for such a buff.

Being able to spot and barrage at range 50 would force the opponent to eventually attack the UKF position, when UKF are already very good at defending and Ostheer quite bad in attacking.

You mean what literally every indirect fire weapon in the game does?

If the extra vision on Flare Sections is a problem, just remove the extra vision. If Section Flares don't outrange HMGs, then they don't serve the role of indirect fire.

It makes it serve its actual function: to barrage an HMG out of position. The whole idea of an indirect fire weapon is you can attack stationary targets from beyond their range.

But also howitzer flares also do significant damage to OKM SWS, OST bunkers and effectively deny a capture from VPs. Somehow no one has mentioned its other uses.

You mean what literally every indirect fire weapon in the game does?

If the extra vision on Flare Sections is a problem, just remove the extra vision. If Section Flares don't outrange HMGs, then they don't serve the role of indirect fire.

No it does not. If Soviet player is using a mortar a Ostheer player does not have hto attack he can use is own mortar to fire back.

In addition UKF are far better defending than Soviet and even Ostheer.

Base howitzer are not there just to counter hmg. You can do it easier using by spotting flanking and using a grenade.

And again if USF need a rework, UKF also do so (even more probably), what they do not need is "cheap" off maps, if 25P are to counter hmg they can easily get smoke rounds.

But also howitzer flares also do significant damage to OKM SWS, OST bunkers and effectively deny a capture from VPs. Somehow no one has mentioned its other uses.

What other uses?
These are regular, normal, historical(except the VP one) uses of howitzers.
That's what they exist for.

I've made this pitch in a previous post, but I'll post a revised version here.

Make Pyro flare's barrage ability free, and put it behind a player-wide cooldown to prevent spammed usage by multiple squads. Give the upgraded squad some sort of camouflage ability (I've since found out toggle-able crawling is buggy with garrison/transport mechanics) so as they don't get pinned by unscreened MGs before throwing the flare. The beauty of it is that there are already in-game assets for such an implementation because of the cut Recon Infantry Sections had the crawl ability (There might also be unused voicelines for the sneaky beaky, but I'm not sure).

The current scrapped recon tactics ability disables Tommy weapons, gives it a sight range boost, and enables camouflage across even open cover. (It should be noted that if such a change were to be implemented, the innate sight boost from Pyro flares would have to go). The camo ability can be balanced accordingly if the current scrapped ability doesn't fit.

Sniper's arty flare can still cost muni since it doesn't require an upgrade, but a cost reduction would also be welcome.

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I think this is the most elegant way to tackle Brit indirect fire without adding any new units. It also helps solve Brit muni starvation. By making Pyro flares both easier to throw and free of per-use cost, the flares function much closer to proper mobile indirect fire (which is all free per-use) rather than the glorified range-limited off-map that it currently is.

The upgrade and use just isn't worth it before the double howi, so 90muni which is a lot at the same time when you need med kits, sweeper, 75muni for wasp lul. This all just to slowly shell a house with a good 20 seconds of forewarning (squad running up with pyro, running into grenade range, throwing the nade, red flare and guns finally rotating and firing) just is NOT worth it for an MG in a garrison. Players do not fear it at all.

I have never seen hans upgrade them before anvil in 1vs1, and I've never seen a player really make use of them unless it's a teamgame with muni flowing everywhere.

The fix is easy: make the call in cost half the price until the second howitzer is built. Then maybe we would see a pyro squad or two.

Make Pyro flare's barrage ability free, and put it behind a player-wide cooldown to prevent spammed usage by multiple squads.

I'm fairly sure it already is on a global cooldown.

The rest of your suggestion would also do the trick in my opinion.

The flares currently require you to flank a properly set up HMG to throw them, and if you can do that you don't need the flares in the first place.

this is a good point, but usually if you flank it's faster to just kill the MG with small arms than wait for the rng base howi to land and ~~~~maybe~~~~ kill a couple of models. Early-midgame pyro before anvil reminds me of the old USF major arty in its current usefulness.

I have faith the balance team can come up with a solution with all the good feedback ITT