Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
He didn't say elite. He said specialist.
A squad that's sole purpose is to fight infantry should beat a similarly priced squad that's got both AI and AT capability.
That shouldn't be a controversial statement.
Posts: 5279
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Guards are a tough nut. They are expensive to start with, coming with slightly weaker AI in favor of slightly weak AT. They they buy an expensive AI upgrade that all but disables fire on the move. No they shouldn't be beating Obers, but should certainly give grens and volks a thrashing shouldn't they?
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
The issue with anti-everything units is that they are too proficient at being anti-everything. Jack of all trades units shouldn’t be able to beat handily beat specialist units. For example Guards shouldnt handily beat comparable axis AI specialist infantry when Guards are more versatile overall.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
Posts: 5279
It not really a simple as that. There should simply be counter play to them.
For instance a specialized long range unit should be in disadvantage from specialized sort range unit at close range. Since axis are sort of weak at sort range units, Guards are hard to counter with infantry and can stand up to light tank when in heavy cover.
It was argued that Guards should be countered with mortars but since the latest nerfs to mortars that has become more difficult.
In addition their vet 1 ability is on of the strongest in the game not all providing unnecessarily more range but more DPS also.
Due to Guards performance Shock are not being used and now the plan do buff shocks instead of nerf Guards.
The original design of Guards being "jack of all trade master of none" was a far better design.
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Well mortars do counter guards. If they are dodging mortar shells they are not shooting but 2 mosins which is pitiful. Additionally while guards are good, hell guards are great... Stg volks can engage favorably if they get a close and the flame nade is devistating vs them due to the lack of FOTM weapons. Ost has pgrens that if they close will eat them alive. A comparable cost of course but anything short of charging across no cover into them will allow you to close on them and that will force them off.
Axis have far more cqb units than Soviet have long range units, both have a squad that can deal cqb from the word go.
Also shocks need a buff Regardless of guards because they are trash. Against they are map dependant but against okw the amount of STGs make cqb much more risky. Shocks are expensive and niche with clear drawbacks and remain one of the only units with an actual designed range.
Posts: 290
Guards are a tough nut. They are expensive to start with, coming with slightly weaker AI in favor of slightly weak AT. They they buy an expensive AI upgrade that all but disables fire on the move. No they shouldn't be beating Obers, but should certainly give grens and volks a thrashing shouldn't they?
Posts: 5279
Disables fire on the move...every single grenadier with lmg in the game where they have no other option, but with commander pick and only getting 2 G43 to 4 man squad. It's not like they are suddenly penals yolo running around with full squad of SVT-40 weapons or guards equipped with TWO DP-28 LMGs. Funny thing when nothing is ever enough for anyone...
Posts: 290
Oh I'm sorry I forgot some people are not so good with simple math so here I'll try this for you:
Guards=6
-2 ptrs
-2dp28
=2
2 rifles
2/6
That's 33%
Now for grens
Grens=4
-1 LMG
=3
3 rifles
3/4
Thats 75%
75 is BIGGER than 33
Of 6 men having 2 firing IS gutted FOTM
Having 4 guys and only 3 firing is a normal day.
Also the lmg42 provides a whack of DPS onto a single target, the 2DPs of I recall are only slightly better COMBINED and deal damage to separate targets.
Problems with penals =/= problems with guards
Some people on here might be whiney cunts who bitch and moan about "their faction" but I am not one of them jump in the lake and quit being so indignant
Posts: 3260
The point still stands. Where's the line between how much value in resources a "specialist" title is worth? 50mp? 100mp? What factions get to use them? who doesn't? etc
Posts: 2243
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
For example Guards shouldnt handily beat comparable axis AI specialist infantry when Guards are more versatile overall.
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
can someone tell my why guards have 4 weapon slots (2ptrs + 2 dps)? while mostly every other infantery has only 2?
let them get only 2 weapons. choose one: AI or AT or a mixed 1 ptrs + 1dps
Posts: 2243
Which Axis AI specialist unit loses to Guards? I am really curious.
Posts: 2243
That moment when Ullumulu suggest a heavy OP buff to soviets.
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I cant see where the buff is when guards could only get 2 ptrs OR 2 dps instead 2 ptrs AND 2 dps?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
Posts: 2243
If you don't see that guards would have to go down in cost or ptrs up in potency and DPs up in potency, then you don't know how balance works or what it even is.
It would also make guards much more mobile and significantly decrease chance of weapon drops.
It is also a dead horse we have talked about in year 1, when people still remembered how campaign Guards worked and these campaign guards would be your new guards as otherwise they would be severely underpowered.
Posts: 2243
If you don't see that guards would have to go down in cost or ptrs up in potency and DPs up in potency, then you don't know how balance works or what it even is.
It would also make guards much more mobile and significantly decrease chance of weapon drops.
It is also a dead horse we have talked about in year 1, when people still remembered how campaign Guards worked and these campaign guards would be your new guards as otherwise they would be severely underpowered.
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I cant see where the buff is when guards could only get 2 ptrs OR 2 dps instead 2 ptrs AND 2 dps?
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