Login

russian armor

Unfair USF grenade cost

2 Nov 2018, 16:32 PM
#21
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1




IMO the idea behind it is more to make Riflemen scale well without being too good early game. Buying grenades for 25 fuel in early game is a really bad idea in any case. Especially because USF has a slow start against OKW anyways.


That's why OKW get Obers late game with better weapon, better stats and better grenades...

Anyway, Riflemen aren't anymore too good early game, especially vs OKW. Grenades are good if you're able to multiply simultaneous engagement which USF can't do vs OKW.
2 Nov 2018, 16:34 PM
#22
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

Most of the time, the enemy will be able to easily dodge Pineapples, even if they reflexes are slow. Grenade lacks an inmediate impact, or an after effect to deny cover, as well as being very pricey. Something's gotta change now that it no longer is a bundle of smoke+frags for Riflemen.
2 Nov 2018, 16:37 PM
#23
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4




IMO the idea behind it is more to make Riflemen scale well without being too good early game. Buying grenades for 25 fuel in early game is a really bad idea in any case. Especially because USF has a slow start against OKW anyways.

You better be ready for tomorrow when I nade you early game B-)
2 Nov 2018, 17:09 PM
#24
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 495 | Subs: 1

Cooked grenades give the enemy less time to react and are thus more powerful and are thus more expensive.... Seems pretty straight forward to me...

Maybe make the snare tied to the grenade tech and make the option for cooked nades a vet1? Certainly see more grenade teching then


It’s still the same actual grenade though...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/MkII_07.JPG/250px-MkII_07.JPG

Anyways, the cost difference between the two is already present in the unit throwing it as an opportunity cost. If you want cooked grenades you need Paratroopers or Rangers, while regular Riflemen are going to get standard timed grenades.

It’s also only a 5 munition difference anyways, it’s just silly that they cost different amounts despite being the exact same physical thing.
2 Nov 2018, 17:20 PM
#25
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

It’s also only a 5 munition difference anyways, it’s just silly that they cost different amounts despite being the exact same physical thing.


It's not silly at all within the game, if something is more powerful or serves a different purpose it can have a different price. It's exactly the same for something like the MG 42 costing either 260 MP, 60 munitions on Grens or 50 munitions on a tank. The fact that it's all the same weapon IRL has nothing to do with the way it's used in the game.
2 Nov 2018, 17:21 PM
#26
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Nov 2018, 16:37 PMTobis

You better be ready for tomorrow when I nade you early game B-)



You think I´m scared now? :sibHyena:
2 Nov 2018, 22:01 PM
#27
avatar of #12345678

Posts: 69

Please, riflemans are no longer strong late game units. Their vet 3 RA got cut long time ago.

A rifleman with a Bar is just equal to a Stg44 volks. You can test that in the game.




Volks are designed to be good early to mid-game with lots of utility like sandbags, panzerfaust and flame nade.

Riflemen and Infantry Sections are designed to be strong late game units that require a lot of investment but ultimately end up being better (in terms of combat power) than Volks as long as you keep them alive and make it into late game.

Not saying this concept is really good or that everything is balanced but that´s the idea behind it. Also five star veterancy for Volks is not really that meaningful anymore after the vet bonus got nerfed hard.




2 Nov 2018, 23:09 PM
#28
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

Please, riflemans are no longer strong late game units. Their vet 3 RA got cut long time ago.

A rifleman with a Bar is just equal to a Stg44 volks. You can test that in the game.



2 BARs though.
2 Nov 2018, 23:55 PM
#29
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4

Please, riflemans are no longer strong late game units. Their vet 3 RA got cut long time ago.

A rifleman with a Bar is just equal to a Stg44 volks. You can test that in the game.

Riflemen still have extra RA bonuses.

-23% received accuracy at vet 2
-15% received accuracy at vet 3, which used to be -25% that they had added in a previous patch

volks only get

-10% at vet 1
-14% at vet 3


A single bar rifleman also does more damage than stg volks at all ranges except for midrange where they are about equal. Still destroys them at close range.
3 Nov 2018, 00:30 AM
#30
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Nov 2018, 23:55 PMTobis

Riflemen still have extra RA bonuses.

-23% received accuracy at vet 2
-15% received accuracy at vet 3, which used to be -25% that they had added in a previous patch

volks only get

-10% at vet 1
-10% at vet 3


A single bar rifleman also does more damage than stg volks at all ranges except for midrange where they are about equal.

Offtopic, but are those bonuses additive or multiplicative?

Like since volks are the easier math: is their target size at vet3 81% (100*0.9*.9) or 80% (100-10-10)?
3 Nov 2018, 01:10 AM
#31
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2


Offtopic, but are those bonuses additive or multiplicative?

Like since volks are the easier math: is their target size at vet3 81% (100*0.9*.9) or 80% (100-10-10)?

They're multiplicative.
3 Nov 2018, 01:11 AM
#32
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4


Offtopic, but are those bonuses additive or multiplicative?

Like since volks are the easier math: is their target size at vet3 81% (100*0.9*.9) or 80% (100-10-10)?

Multiplicative.

Actually their vet3 is 14%, edited my post.

Volks vet3 77.4% (100*.9*.86)

Riflemen vet3 63.5% (97*.77*.85)

3 Nov 2018, 10:44 AM
#33
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

I think volks feel more tanky because they are granted the ability to deny enemies cover at a fair range while being able to make use of it themselves. At most they will be pushed from cover for all of a second but are able to inflict a movement penalty and flush cover of the enemy forcing them into the open to find new cover. Looking at volks piece by piece they are fine. Looking at the package, at all the things they can do as a whole they are too much. Most of the things that make them SO strong were simply piled on after the faction was designed initially and was piled on only considering what the faction was missing not what was already had. STGs, lava nades and a snare enable a unit that was supposed to be part of an army to carry said army. The fact that volks are even comparable to rifles is simply ubserd considering the 30mp difference especially when you consider just how bad volks dummy cons for a mere 10mp. Throw in the lack of any real investment to aquire their kit and you will find a poorly designed, over reaching unit.
3 Nov 2018, 17:31 PM
#34
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 808

I think volks feel more tanky because they are granted the ability to deny enemies cover at a fair range while being able to make use of it themselves. At most they will be pushed from cover for all of a second but are able to inflict a movement penalty and flush cover of the enemy forcing them into the open to find new cover. Looking at volks piece by piece they are fine. Looking at the package, at all the things they can do as a whole they are too much. Most of the things that make them SO strong were simply piled on after the faction was designed initially and was piled on only considering what the faction was missing not what was already had. STGs, lava nades and a snare enable a unit that was supposed to be part of an army to carry said army. The fact that volks are even comparable to rifles is simply ubserd considering the 30mp difference especially when you consider just how bad volks dummy cons for a mere 10mp. Throw in the lack of any real investment to aquire their kit and you will find a poorly designed, over reaching unit.


so volks feel tanky to you even though clearly they are not compared to riflemen, thats ur own placebo. Riflemen are more durable and can dish out more dps.

I dont understand what you want, your talking about volks being OP by winning in cover while riflemen are out, so you want volks to lose every engagement no matter how good their positioning? your being ridiculous.
Without STG's volks are trash compared to allied INF especially when they get upgraded. Lava nades are needed for garrison clearing, and they got snare as they no longer have shreks. Take any of those out and watch OKW get stomped left and right.
3 Nov 2018, 17:41 PM
#35
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2018, 01:11 AMTobis

Multiplicative.

Actually their vet3 is 14%, edited my post.

Volks vet3 77.4% (100*.9*.86)

Riflemen vet3 63.5% (97*.77*.85)


Good to know, thanks.

But is riflemen's initial target size actually .97? I thought it was .9?
3 Nov 2018, 17:42 PM
#36
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

.91 are grens.
.97 are rifles.
3 Nov 2018, 18:49 PM
#37
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

.91 are grens.
.97 are rifles.

Oh lol I always thought it was .9

So riflemen are 1% more durable than volks when they're both at vet3.
3 Nov 2018, 19:32 PM
#38
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

So riflemen are 1% more durable than volks when they're both at vet3.


How exactly are they 1% more durable when they are at 63.5% compared to Volks 77.4%?
3 Nov 2018, 21:03 PM
#39
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



How exactly are they 1% more durable when they are at 63.5% compared to Volks 77.4%?

Oh I read it wrong lol. Thought it said .86 to .85 as the final bonuses, which didn't really make sense to me. Gameplay wise seems to be much different and those numbers make more sense now.
3 Nov 2018, 23:06 PM
#40
avatar of Cresc

Posts: 378

The guy doesn't complain that the grenade is too good, he is telling you it's too cheap.

Get real seriously...
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Livestreams

unknown 12
United States 11

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

407 users are online: 1 member and 406 guests
seoworld20
3 posts in the last 24h
15 posts in the last week
27 posts in the last month
Registered members: 49893
Welcome our newest member, Kevindale46387
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM