Lately I'm trying different strat with USF and forced me into calling a M20 to see what could be done with. What hurt a lot is the quantity of XP you need to reach vet1 and how slow it goes to do it.
You need to kill 12 models of grenadiers and the unit simply doesn't kill anything, many time after 2 or 3 minutes of usage and micro, you barely get 1 or 2 kills.
So I did some cheatmod tests and checked the stats with what is the closest unit, the 222:
222 is simply doing double damage at 35 range than the M20
222 35 range = 8.085
M20 35 range = 4.216
And in fact that pretty much a no match from range 0 to 35 even considering the 4men squad of Ostheer.
So why is the M20 so trashy?
Because of the mine? Can't see any sense in it, I see the mine as an incensitive to build the M20 not a primary function which would make the M20 dps secondary.
Why is the M20 so trashy?
28 Oct 2018, 14:04 PM
#1
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
28 Oct 2018, 15:58 PM
#2
Posts: 1096
I rarely use the M20 in combat, it's not worth risking what is essentially an overpriced mine-layer.
I often back-tech to it though if the enemy is fond of diving deep with their tanks.
I often back-tech to it though if the enemy is fond of diving deep with their tanks.
28 Oct 2018, 16:13 PM
#3
Posts: 378
It's not trashy, you don't know how to use it.
T34 85 needs to have slightly less AI. It's shells are basically on par with Sherman HE yet it does everything.
28 Oct 2018, 16:15 PM
#4
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
It's not trashy, you don't know how to use it.
Hope you would explain.
28 Oct 2018, 16:21 PM
#5
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
It's not trashy, you don't know how to use it.
I agree it´s not trashy, just a bit too expensive in MP.
28 Oct 2018, 16:32 PM
#6
Posts: 3053
The M20 is a decent unit (and super fun to use) but its way overpriced IMO; it costs the same manpower as a Sherman 
It shouldn't need a skirts upgrade (which still doesn't prevent it from dying in two hits) and vets super slow but other than that it's a pretty good unit. It has pretty decent long range damage and shines when chasing down retreating units at close range (which it's fast enough to do) or flanking lone team weapons because of its very good close range dps.
It shouldn't need a skirts upgrade (which still doesn't prevent it from dying in two hits) and vets super slow but other than that it's a pretty good unit. It has pretty decent long range damage and shines when chasing down retreating units at close range (which it's fast enough to do) or flanking lone team weapons because of its very good close range dps. | Playercard of LoopDloop | |||||||||||||||||||
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28 Oct 2018, 16:38 PM
#7
Posts: 129
I would literally rather get a cache instead of this
The HT is better 10/10 times
The HT is better 10/10 times
28 Oct 2018, 16:53 PM
#8
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
The M20 is a decent unit (and super fun to use) but its way overpriced IMO; it costs the same manpower as a Sherman
Which imo make it trashy in the current meta.
28 Oct 2018, 17:40 PM
#9
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Its close range damage is actually really good, but the only time that's usable is when you flank a rak/pak, attacking pgrens or going after a retreating squad. Close to faust units is obviously bad. It has great utility and LoS especially with vet, I just wish the skirts were way cheaper or free. I think I'd rather have a BAR than getting overpriced skirts.
28 Oct 2018, 17:53 PM
#10
Posts: 1527
Permanently BannedThe m20 doesn't have godlike dps vs infantry. You have the AAHT for that. M20 is a sniper counter specialist and yes, the mines are insanely powerful.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
28 Oct 2018, 18:15 PM
#11
Posts: 1527
Permanently BannedI think the fuel price should be raised to 30 but the skirts should be free.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
28 Oct 2018, 18:34 PM
#12
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Performance is fine I think but the cost should go way down. Around 250 manpower and 30 fuel. Maybe make the side skirts standard issue.
28 Oct 2018, 20:08 PM
#13
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
M20 is a victim of Powercreep, it's outdated compared to everything else it faces and competes with. Poor thing needs some love.
28 Oct 2018, 20:54 PM
#14
1 
Posts: 2885
M20 is reasonably strong. Its firepower doesn't feel so good now that 222 is dirt cheap and luchs comes so early, but it is definitely a good unit to have. It's good performance was the reason why it was priced so high originally, but now that it has been overshadowed it may be the time to price it a little less.
To be hones though, I would much prefer if other rush vehicles were simply made more expensive, similar to the m20. Right now that we all rush LVs, there is not much of the true coh infantry play in the game.
To be hones though, I would much prefer if other rush vehicles were simply made more expensive, similar to the m20. Right now that we all rush LVs, there is not much of the true coh infantry play in the game.
28 Oct 2018, 21:27 PM
#15
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I'd rather M20 be more fragile, but its MG do more then fancy sounds outside of "barrel literally rammed into krauts bum" range.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Oct 2018, 22:03 PM
#16
1 Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
It's not that bad, just too expensive.
Lower MP to 220 and increase buildtime so it doesn't come out faster.
Lower MP to 220 and increase buildtime so it doesn't come out faster.
Tobis "Complete Throw"
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
28 Oct 2018, 22:06 PM
#17
Posts: 3260
The Utility Car costs a small fortune for what's essentially a minelaying 221 with smoke. It's completely overshadowed by the AAHT.
29 Oct 2018, 00:19 AM
#18
Posts: 3053
Performance is fine I think but the cost should go way down. Around 250 manpower and 30 fuel. Maybe make the side skirts standard issue.
+1
IMO vet requirements are way too high right now too considering it doesn't do crazy amounts of damage or anything.
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29 Oct 2018, 01:18 AM
#19
Posts: 378
Hope you would explain.
Imagine you're in a game where you're getting outmatched, your rifleman can hardly keep any offensive up and your opponent is going to get his first light in the field.
The M20 is here to help, you can apply good pressure, get fast dps(your compare the dps to the 222, did you check the scatter value on each?)
And...you get a free bazooka...
If your opponent is ostheer and happen to get a sniper, you can trade your M20 for it.
It's a expensive unit overall but it does its job.
T34 85 needs to have slightly less AI. It's shells are basically on par with Sherman HE yet it does everything.
29 Oct 2018, 01:39 AM
#20
1 Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
If your opponent is ostheer and happen to get a sniper, you can trade your M20 for it.
It's a expensive unit overall but it does its job.
Awful trade.
340 mp 20 fuel 60 muni for 360 mp and probably giving the enemy a bazooka.
Tobis "Complete Throw"
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
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