ive had a game where this guy simply builds an OKW T4 HQ... but fucks up his placement and gets satcheled... and simply cancels it to regain his lost resources and waste my satchel like a get out of jail free card...
i find this stupid to be honest... if you placed your HQ there and have been outplayed to the point where i satchel your HQ... you better damn lose your HQ along with your fuel and resources... not cancel it to reimburse resources like a get out of jail free card...
OKW buildings and resources upon cancellation
6 Oct 2018, 08:42 AM
#1
Posts: 1979
6 Oct 2018, 09:02 AM
#2
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
I suggested that the OKW trucks lockdown instead of perma-deploying somewhere but I guess Relic though that the current system is better.
6 Oct 2018, 09:35 AM
#3
Posts: 1979
the solution is simple really... dont reimburse OKW resources when they cancel their HQ
6 Oct 2018, 09:36 AM
#4
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
the solution is simple really... dont reimburse OKW resources when they cancel their HQ
what you be the point of cancel then?
6 Oct 2018, 09:39 AM
#5
Posts: 1979
what you be the point of cancel then?
hmm true... how about prevent its cancellation if it were to get under fire? that way OKW cant cheese its way out of a bad situation... and give it a delay aswell... cancellation shouldnt be instantaneous...
6 Oct 2018, 09:54 AM
#6
1 
Posts: 2885
When canceling, the okw player is returned the resource cost of the building multiplied by the percentage of its health. This is all good because he is rewarded for reacting quickly and because he loses the cost of the truck itself either way. The problem here is that the split between building cost and truck cost is so uneven. If the truck was more expensive and the building cheaper, he would have to pay bigger price. Still, even current 100mp 15fu truck is worth quite a lot more than a satchel itself.
Btw. You can destroy trucks under construction very easy with small arms. That way you can push your opponent into false sense of security. When he realises that he should have canceled the truck, he will only get the tiny bit of resources that is left from its current health.
Btw. You can destroy trucks under construction very easy with small arms. That way you can push your opponent into false sense of security. When he realises that he should have canceled the truck, he will only get the tiny bit of resources that is left from its current health.
6 Oct 2018, 10:18 AM
#7
Posts: 1979
When canceling, the okw player is returned the resource cost of the building multiplied by the percentage of its health. This is all good because he is rewarded for reacting quickly and because he loses the cost of the truck itself either way. The problem here is that the split between building cost and truck cost is so uneven. If the truck was more expensive and the building cheaper, he would have to pay bigger price. Still, even current 100mp 15fu truck is worth quite a lot more than a satchel itself.
Btw. You can destroy trucks under construction very easy with small arms. That way you can push your opponent into false sense of security. When he realises that he should have canceled the truck, he will only get the tiny bit of resources that is left from its current health.
its a bad idea regardless... cancelling allows an OKW player to easily reimburse losses he should have taken to the gut... it rewards bad play and nothing else..
6 Oct 2018, 10:39 AM
#8
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
its a bad idea regardless... cancelling allows an OKW player to easily reimburse losses he should have taken to the gut... it rewards bad play and nothing else..
On the other hand destroying UKF emplacements while their being built is far more difficult.
One has to rethink or redesign all these half built structures.
6 Oct 2018, 10:59 AM
#9
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
On the other hand destroying UKF emplacements while their being built is far more difficult.
One has to rethink or redesign all these half built structures.
I think the solution to the OKW HQ truck problem is fairly simple, you just make it so instead of deploying forever you deploy it and then can undeploy it like the CoH British HQ trucks, meaning that it can't just vanish in thin air like some cheap magic trick.
Here is what SneakEye did:
But I guess it makes too much god damn sense for it to be implemented sadly.
As for the UKF emplacements, it's a bug. I once "decrewed" a Bofors while it was still building and then couldn't destroy it but I could capture it.
6 Oct 2018, 11:07 AM
#10
1 Posts: 2885
I think the solution to the OKW HQ truck problem is fairly simple, you just make it so instead of deploying forever you deploy it and then can undeploy it like the CoH British HQ trucks, meaning that it can't just vanish in thin air like some cheap magic trick.
Here is what SneakEye did:
But I guess it makes too much god damn sense for it to be implemented sadly.
As for the UKF emplacements, it's a bug. I once "decrewed" a Bofors while it was still building and then couldn't destroy it but I could capture it.
They will never do that. And that is for two reasons. First, it is a design decision that trucks are deployed only once and that the moving truck can transform into any set up truck it wants. The other is that in order to do british style trucks, you would have to make it visible that this truck will be a medical one after set up and the other will be a flak one. Coh1 trucks had such distinctions build into their models. Okw trucks do not. And they surely won't modify the model of a truck at this point.
Also it doesn't make any more sense than current design. It is all just personal preference of yours.
6 Oct 2018, 11:20 AM
#11
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
They will never do that. And that is for two reasons. First, it is a design decision that trucks are deployed only once and that the moving truck can transform into any set up truck it wants. The other is that in order to do british style trucks, you would have to make it visible that this truck will be a medical one after set up and the other will be a flak one. Coh1 trucks had such distinctions build into their models. Okw trucks do not. And they surely won't modify the model of a truck at this point.
Also it doesn't make any more sense than current design. It is all just personal preference of yours.
I asked SneakEye about it and he confirmed that it's possible for the trucks to retain their textures (and the flak at the back of the Flak HQ if I remember correctly) so your 2nd reason is entirely bullshit beyond all comprehension. It's also possible to keep the current system while simply allowing them to unsetup into normal sWS, it would just be a more technical complex way of doing it.
And lastly, it's not just my personal preference, it's a system that worked and made sense and was also far less abusable.
6 Oct 2018, 11:22 AM
#13
Posts: 1979
On the other hand destroying UKF emplacements while their being built is far more difficult.
One has to rethink or redesign all these half built structures.
the same logic should apply to UKF... if they get caught with their pants down they need to pay for it...
6 Oct 2018, 11:26 AM
#14
Posts: 1979
They will never do that. And that is for two reasons. First, it is a design decision that trucks are deployed only once and that the moving truck can transform into any set up truck it wants. The other is that in order to do british style trucks, you would have to make it visible that this truck will be a medical one after set up and the other will be a flak one. Coh1 trucks had such distinctions build into their models. Okw trucks do not. And they surely won't modify the model of a truck at this point.
Also it doesn't make any more sense than current design. It is all just personal preference of yours.
it made sense and worked in COH 1... the argument doesnt really stand
6 Oct 2018, 11:29 AM
#15
1 Posts: 2885
I asked SneakEye about it and he confirmed that it's possible for the trucks to retain their textures (and the flak at the back of the Flak HQ if I remember correctly) so your 2nd reason is entirely bullshit beyond all comprehension. It's also possible to keep the current system while simply allowing them to unsetup into normal sWS, it would just be a more technical complex way of doing it.
And lastly, it's not just my personal preference, it's a system that worked and made sense and was also far less abusable.
It isn't as easy as you think. Simply allowing to unsetup would have to return resources. Which is very abusable. On top of that, both of your propositions make okw stronger, which is unwanted after all the ballance fine tuning we got. And yes, it is your preference as most people agree coh1 brits were the worst designed faction in history of coh2. Nobody wants them back. People even got scared by the okw just when they saw okw has some forward setup trucks becouse they thought it is going to be as bad as coh1 brits.
I won't even comment on your other post. Learn some minimal manners before talking to anybody.
6 Oct 2018, 11:38 AM
#16
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
It isn't as easy as you think. Simply allowing to unsetup would have to return resources. Which is very abusable. On top of that, both of your propositions make okw stronger, which is unwanted after all the ballance fine tuning we got. And yes, it is your preference as most people agree coh1 brits were the worst designed faction in history of coh2. Nobody wants them back. People even got scared by the okw just when they saw okw has some forward setup trucks becouse they thought it is going to be as bad as coh1 brits.
I won't even comment on your other post. Learn some minimal manners before talking to anybody.
Yes it's as "easy" as I think because I know how modding works, you don't. And unsetup is not an active ability, the whole deploy ability would be the same as the USF Ambulance's lockdown toggle ability just with animations, again, something which you can't even comprehend.
And I have seen absolutely zero complaints of the British HQ trucks apart from people trolling by putting them in a corner which could be easily fixed by counting non deployed buildings as a loss for the user, but I agree that their design needed some rework.
And you need to go to some anger management because you have some issues, I even have your other reply to me from another topic which is full of passive aggressiveness as well.
6 Oct 2018, 11:41 AM
#17
Posts: 817 | Subs: 5
It isn't as easy as you think. Simply allowing to unsetup would have to return resources. Which is very abusable. On top of that, both of your propositions make okw stronger, which is unwanted after all the ballance fine tuning we got. And yes, it is your preference as most people agree coh1 brits were the worst designed faction in history of coh2. Nobody wants them back. People even got scared by the okw just when they saw okw has some forward setup trucks becouse they thought it is going to be as bad as coh1 brits.
I won't interfere in the balance discussion, just want to explain what I have in mind (and which will be implemented in the all units mod very soon).
The player can buy three different trucks, which can by recognized by their different symbols. The costs are the same as the current implemented truck + building. Losing a truck that way will be a game-changer. Setup and making mobile will be free and therefore no refund is needed and it cannot be exploited. Once you make an HQ mobile, it can only set up as the type is was before and thus not skipping tier to get to the last.
6 Oct 2018, 11:52 AM
#18
1 Posts: 2885
I won't interfere in the balance discussion, just want to explain what I have in mind (and which will be implemented in the all units mod very soon).
The player can buy three different trucks, which can by recognized by their different symbols. The costs are the same as the current implemented truck + building. Losing a truck that way will be a game-changer. Setup and making mobile will be free and therefore no refund is needed and it cannot be exploited. Once you make an HQ mobile, it can only set up as the type is was before and thus not skipping tier to get to the last.
Yeah, that is what I had in mind at first. It is exactly a copy of coh1 brit system. And that is all right, although I just think that the design decision relic made to keep trucks immobile after setup is better. Yes, your solution means you can't get resources back while building. But it is a small problem, compared to the fact that a player who put his truck in a position that is way too extended, can just pack it up and retreat. Current system requires much more forward thinking and thus is better for the game.
That said I appreciate your work towards making things like that possible. I believe this can be a fine component of a "coh1 in coh2 engine" mod for example. I just prefer what we have now in the live game.
6 Oct 2018, 12:16 PM
#19
Posts: 104
its your mistake for trowing a satchel. small arms fire is a better solution as long as the structure is in construction, since in this case it has 0 armor. wait until it finishes before using the satchel.
6 Oct 2018, 12:17 PM
#20
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
Yeah, that is what I had in mind at first. It is exactly a copy of coh1 brit system.
That's a good kiss-ass come back however, you said this:
It isn't as easy as you think. Simply allowing to unsetup would have to return resources.
Which proves that you're lying.
You may think I'm doing this because I'm an evil asshole or whatever, I'm really doing it to teach you a lesson, today you act like a tough guy on the internet without any proof to back you up, tomorrow that might just cost you your life if you're face to face with somebody. Take from it what you will.
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