German infantry doctrine rework is so OP

GERMAN INFANTRY DOCTRINE
Veteran Squad Leaders (Title will likely be changed at some point)
-Panzergrenadiers can be upgraded with Support Package. Unlocks three abilities for 30 Munitions.
-Rudimentary Repair: Allows Panzergrenadiers to repair at a reduced rate. (1.1 vs a Pioneer's 1.6)
-Combined Arms: Panzergrenadiers gain -10% Received Accuracy and +20% speed when near vehicles.
-Mark Target/ Infantry: Panzergrenadiers can mark hostile infantry; enemy will take +25% received accuracy while the Panzergrenadiers receive +15% received accuracy. Retreating removes the penalties.

-Grenadier Veteran Squad Leader upgrade now grants -10% reduction on weapon cooldowns, +10% weapon accuracy, -10% received accuracy and reduces the cost of Medical Kits to 0.

Assault and Hold (Replaces Tactical Movement)
-Increases the accuracy of all infantry by 25% for 45 seconds
-Capture and decapture rate is increased by 100% for infantry squads.
-Costs 70 munitions

WTF is this? lol


give rifleman company "veteran surgent" upgrade ^^

- rifleman can be 6-man squad and can use sprint and field healing

- veteran surgent use 1 thompson

- cost is 60muni



why not? is it OP? u guys also will say "this is OP"?

rifleman can use 2 bar, so this is OP -> veteran squard grenadier now grants -10% reduction on weapon cooldowns, +10% weapon accuracy, -10% received accuracy and reduces the cost of Medical Kits to 0. OP??

anyway rifleman is most strong mainline infantry in coh2 -> play USF plz


utillity for PG is good, i agree too but veteran grenadier is just OP

if that patch will go on, relic must give "veteran surgent" to rifle company

GERMAN INFANTRY DOCTRINE
Veteran Squad Leaders (Title will likely be changed at some point)
-Panzergrenadiers can be upgraded with Support Package. Unlocks three abilities for 30 Munitions.
-Rudimentary Repair: Allows Panzergrenadiers to repair at a reduced rate. (1.1 vs a Pioneer's 1.6)
-Combined Arms: Panzergrenadiers gain -10% Received Accuracy and +20% speed when near vehicles.
-Mark Target/ Infantry: Panzergrenadiers can mark hostile infantry; enemy will take +25% received accuracy while the Panzergrenadiers receive +15% received accuracy. Retreating removes the penalties.

-Grenadier Veteran Squad Leader upgrade now grants -10% reduction on weapon cooldowns, +10% weapon accuracy, -10% received accuracy and reduces the cost of Medical Kits to 0.

Assault and Hold (Replaces Tactical Movement)
-Increases the accuracy of all infantry by 25% for 45 seconds
-Capture and decapture rate is increased by 100% for infantry squads.
-Costs 70 munitions

WTF is this? lol


give rifleman company "veteran surgent" upgrade ^^

- rifleman can be 6-man squad and can use sprint and field healing

- veteran surgent use 1 thompson

- cost is 60muni



why not? is it OP? u guys also will say "this is OP"?

rifleman can use 2 bar, so this is OP -> veteran squard grenadier now grants -10% reduction on weapon cooldowns, +10% weapon accuracy, -10% received accuracy and reduces the cost of Medical Kits to 0. OP??

anyway rifleman is most strong mainline infantry in coh2 -> play USF plz


utillity for PG is good, i agree too but veteran grenadier is just OP

if that patch will go on, relic must give "veteran surgent" to rifle company

USF have Cavalry Riflemen who have the ability "Covering fire". I don't remember exactly what it does (can't find it, but when i will, i will update you here), but it reduces the damage and the speed of the targeted infantry.

Yeah seriously, its as if wehrmacht isn't already OP, the 5 man gren was one thing but then utility pzgren was just too much

I have not tested yet but the direction seem correct. Abilities and utility is better direction since it allows both lmg gren and 5 men grenadier to be used and not one replacing the other.

5 men flamer squad are problematic imo.

Tbh the main problem here imo are the 5 man flamepios and the utility pgrens...

USF have Cavalry Riflemen who have the ability "Covering fire". I don't remember exactly what it does (can't find it, but when i will, i will update you here), but it reduces the damage and the speed of the targeted infantry.

covering fire is useless

choose one kill enemy / suppress enemy

what do you want? suppress?

covering fire is useless

choose one kill enemy / suppress enemy

what do you want? suppress?

If you want to suppress, you chose the wrong unit. Covering fire does what it is supposed to do. If you want suppression, you go for MG or AAHT. If you want to kill, Cavalry Riflemen can do the job, similar to Riflemen

If you want to suppress, you chose the wrong unit. Covering fire does what it is supposed to do. If you want suppression, you go for MG or AAHT. If you want to kill, Cavalry Riflemen can do the job, similar to Riflemen

I KNOW

just i want to say covering fire is useless skill

I haven´t tested the new Panzergrenadiers but this doctrine was far from OP in my games. 5 men Grens aren´t better than LMG Grens. New Stromtroopers are mediocre. Wouldn´t want to use this doctrine in automatch.

In my opinion, 5 man grens are better than pgrens or storm troopers. The extra utility on prgrens is nice though.

Did I miss the patch where they made Ost and usf mirror factions? Or is this still the patch where usf have 5 man rifles by default and OST need a specific doctrine to get 5 man squads? Obviously regardless usf NEEEEEEEDS to have the edge 150% of the time so please get back to me so I can be outraged at the double lmg grens that MUST be in game already given the content of this (shit?) post

Did I miss the patch where they made Ost and usf mirror factions? Or is this still the patch where usf have 5 man rifles by default and OST need a specific doctrine to get 5 man squads? Obviously regardless usf NEEEEEEEDS to have the edge 150% of the time so please get back to me so I can be outraged at the double lmg grens that MUST be in game already given the content of this (shit?) post

the 5 man upgraded grens do perform very well vs double bar riflemen (will just have to wait and see how the pros use them). Upgraded Pgrens will lose to upgraded rifles unless riflemen run up to p-gren's optimal range.

Yeah seriously, its as if wehrmacht isn't already OP

It isn't. Germans lack their originally intended tank advantage and have to face superior BARS, Brens and Penals so there is no reason they shouldn't get capable infantry. Mind you that this also forces the Wehr player into a doctrine and denies the MG42 upgrade for Grens. The PG utility isn't that much of a deal for a 340 mp unit that lacks the firepower to fight aforementioned allied infantry at range.

It isn't. Germans lack their originally intended tank advantage and have to face superior BARS, Brens and Penals so there is no reason they shouldn't get capable infantry. Mind you that this also forces the Wehr player into a doctrine and denies the MG42 upgrade for Grens. The PG utility isn't that much of a deal for a 340 mp unit that lacks the firepower to fight aforementioned allied infantry at range.

Then explain very low USF and UKF win rate against ost in CGS2.

Also, ost always had capable infantry.
But its not "I spam one unit to win" army, its combined arms army.
The one unit IWIN army is OKW there.

There is also this cost thing you know, if opponent got 3x 300mp squads, you aren't going to pay much more for 4x240mp ones and LMGs are going to make mp bleed insufferable.

And what exactly sits in your head to think that mid/low range infantry should be able to fight all/long range oriented weapons/squads?

Sorry, but ost isn't a weaksauce you're trying to make it out to be in terms of infantry.

Then explain very low USF and UKF win rate against ost in CGS2.

Also, ost always had capable infantry.
But its not "I spam one unit to win" army, its combined arms army.
The one unit IWIN army is OKW there.

There is also this cost thing you know, if opponent got 3x 300mp squads, you aren't going to pay much more for 4x240mp ones and LMGs are going to make mp bleed insufferable.

And what exactly sits in your head to think that mid/low range infantry should be able to fight all/long range oriented weapons/squads?

Sorry, but ost isn't a weaksauce you're trying to make it out to be in terms of infantry.

Every time I think Katitof is stepping out of his shoes I look at the name and it's Butcher. I mean you guys are killing me with the same pic here.

the 5 man upgraded grens do perform very well vs double bar riflemen (will just have to wait and see how the pros use them). Upgraded Pgrens will lose to upgraded rifles unless riflemen run up to p-gren's optimal range.

I wonder then if a kit realignment is needed for grens with the upgrade. Locking out the lmg is a fairly large price to pay but so are the perks gained, especially after this round of changes

I have not tested yet but the direction seem correct. Abilities and utility is better direction since it allows both lmg gren and 5 men grenadier to be used and not one replacing the other.

5 men flamer squad are problematic imo.

+1

I really like the commander as a whole. I don't realy know how I fel about 5 man flamers but I don't think it's crazy OP since they only have mp40s.

IMO both the 5th man and the RA mods are pretty borked. It needs some sort of trade off, it cant get both combat bonus but then also get durability.

It isn't. Germans lack their originally intended tank advantage and have to face superior BARS, Brens and Penals so there is no reason they shouldn't get capable infantry. Mind you that this also forces the Wehr player into a doctrine and denies the MG42 upgrade for Grens. The PG utility isn't that much of a deal for a 340 mp unit that lacks the firepower to fight aforementioned allied infantry at range.

Why should they have a massive tank advantage? Their tanks are top of the line whether its stug or pz4, they're hardly doing poorly in armor department. How about they lose their tier 0 mg advantage and lock mg42 behind t2? I mean they clearly won't have early infantry disadvantage now anyways.
Wehrmacht is so complete right now with strong mg play into light vehicles into mediums its just not funny, weak core infantry right now is the only "justification" for this.

This is one of the main reason players are playing soviets now despite soviets being nerfed in recent patches not buffed, because in the light vehicle meta only t70 crutching combined with ptrs can even put up a real play against that shit. Now without puma, this would be atleast some what bearable considering wehr infantry fragility (even that is extremely overrated)but now it won't be a problem either

The 5 man grenadier isn't about the dps, it means they have more staying power to offer utility and support other wehr weapons, where as you would have had to retreat your other units once ur grenadiers got low on the past. This is why ostruppens are so viable, wehr uses core infantry to support other units instead of other units supporting wehr. Despite this, it would have been okay if 5man grenadier was all it was, but to give panzergrenadiers a shit ton of RA buffs, utility and mark target on top of more grenadier staying power?

As a guy who plays every faction except soviets near equally throughout patches, I find this myth of wehr being some high skill cap thus not op non sense such a joke at this point, wehr is the only faction with a complete kit baseline, and doctrinal crutches in flavors of the players choosing.

+1

I really like the commander as a whole. I don't realy know how I fel about 5 man flamers but I don't think it's crazy OP since they only have mp40s.

Tested it a bit, really doesn't make much of a difference. The 5th man is more useful for repairs TBH. There are 5 man flamer ass engies to compete with.