Teller mines and OHKs

I'm ALL for nerfing its damage and reducing its cost to 30 munitions.

Mines NEED to be laid as early as possible, and Tellers cost too much to start planting in the earliest stages of a match when Pioneers run around unopposed capping and building stuff.

I've literally been playing OKW more lately purely because I've been exploring defensive play and wanted to mine heavily, which I can do with Stormpioneers starting very early.

Of course, OKW mines are trash because they're triggered by infantry, but it's still more fun and more flexible to be able to plant mines earlier and in higher quantities than the situation with Teller Mines.

And in general, more AT mines = easier to defend your base and other key areas against brazen armor rushes.

So aye, I'm all for it as long as the cost is lowered sufficiently.

no need to reduce the cost... just reduce the damage by around 40 or 60... that ways a teller isnt an OHK but will significantly cripple anything thats hit...

no need to reduce the cost... just reduce the damage by around 40 or 60... that ways a teller isnt an OHK but will significantly cripple anything thats hit...

...do you not understand how balancing works?

If you reduce the damage output of something, you have to reduce its cost.

...do you not understand how balancing works?

If you reduce the damage output of something, you have to reduce its cost.

mmkay lets make the teller 30 muni but visible to infantry and not placable on roads?

its apparently fine when they nerf an broken soviet mine but unacceptable when you nerf a broken axis one.... wehraboo logic...

my suggestion at least requires the wehr player to do a followup instead of doing braindead mine placement...

i dont mind mines being strong tbh... but it shouldnt oneshot... the demo was nerfed for that exact reason and i find it hypocritical that the teller isnt aswell

"If they nerf demo then i want they nerf telles mines..." wow thats not childish at all!
Since OST relies a lot on support weapons, they suffer quite a lot from any form of flanking, so Teller mines and riegel mines are the only tool to avoid that. It would be really easy for a T70 or AEC to flank them as they will if not for a mine. To deny a road its important to control the frontline.
If the damage were to be reduced, they should at least damage engine and/or treads, any form of light vehincle like cars shold simply blow up. Also reduce the cost to make them more appealing for use.

no need to reduce the cost... just reduce the damage by around 40 or 60... that ways a teller isnt an OHK but will significantly cripple anything thats hit...

man, just quit asking for OST or OKM nerfs, would you?

"If they nerf demo then i want they nerf telles mines..." wow thats not childish at all!
Since OST relies a lot on support weapons, they suffer quite a lot from any form of flanking, so Teller mines and riegel mines are the only tool to avoid that. It would be really easy for a T70 or AEC to flank them as they will if not for a mine. To deny a road its important to control the frontline.
If the damage were to be reduced, they should at least damage engine and/or treads, any form of light vehincle like cars shold simply blow up. Also reduce the cost to make them more appealing for use.



man, just quit asking for OST or OKM nerfs, would you?

one hit kill mines and demos are the problem.... its not "getting even with the demo nerf" but rather shoving wehraboo hypocrisy up their asses...

you are right there... OST does suffer if they are flanked... and yes OST is balanced vs sov right now... however the teller represents an interesting problem...

it is, like the democharge, a one hit kill mine that can and instantly end a game then and there without requiring a followup faust/shot/222... the exact same reason why the democharge... which was OP at its time was nerfed...

also it must also be noted that the soviets are equally vulnerable to flanking and even frontal assaults if they are using the (considerably inferior) T2 build... the maxim is after all the worst MG ingame (tried and tested vs the MG34 and the vickers... maxim performs worst out of all of them) and can easily be deathlooped by 3 grenadiers with LMGs frontally... which i did just a game ago...

the democharge was the saving grace of the old sov T2 build... and just like how the teller could end a game here and there... the demo could prevent flanking maneuvers from devastating maxim... ofc that doesnt happen anymore and rightfully so the old demo was broken but the exact same logic applies to the teller

hence its not about getting even... its about unbreaking a broken mechanic...

the maxim is after all the worst MG ingame (tried and tested vs the MG34 and the vickers... maxim performs worst out of all of them) and can easily be deathlooped by 3 grenadiers with LMGs frontally... which i did just a game ago...

all mgs are meant to stop infantry blobs... its like a rock-paper-scissors game, you dont put an mg against other and pretend to win the duel... also maxims are extremely durable.
If your mg got deathlooped it means it got either flanked or assaulted, it only bothers you because you deathloop a 6 man mg, instead of the mg42 wich has only 4 man.
0HKs are tough but as someone said earlier, its a mistake to drive a light into a minefield...

mmkay lets make the teller 30 muni but visible to infantry and not placable on roads?

its apparently fine when they nerf an broken soviet mine but unacceptable when you nerf a broken axis one.... wehraboo logic...

my suggestion at least requires the wehr player to do a followup instead of doing braindead mine placement...

now thats clearly whining...

no need to reduce the cost... just reduce the damage by around 40 or 60... that ways a teller isnt an OHK but will significantly cripple anything thats hit...

If you reduce the damage by a small amount it will still onehit slightly lighter vehicles like: uc m3a1 m3 m5 m15 or m20.

It wasn't ok that 90 munis Demos could one click-wipe a 240-380 MP unit but it is still ok that a 50 munis Mine can on shot (even without clicking on it) a 270 MP + 70 Fuel unit.
Relics and Wehrmacht players logic

To OP, I tried many times to address this but all I got was smartass answers from the Wehrmacht players, without arguments. Get minesweepers they said because they can be everywhere anytime right?
Some would say that this can be an argument for protecting you from Demos, right? Nooooo said the Wehrmacht players.

Don't get me wrong, I like the tellers but I also did like the demos but they disappeared.
That's balance, right?

all mgs are meant to stop infantry blobs... its like a rock-paper-scissors game, you dont put an mg against other and pretend to win the duel... also maxims are extremely durable.
If your mg got deathlooped it means it got either flanked or assaulted, it only bothers you because you deathloop a 6 man mg, instead of the mg42 wich has only 4 man.
0HKs are tough but as someone said earlier, its a mistake to drive a light into a minefield...



now thats clearly whining...

1. the maxim is the worst at suppression

2. the maxim loses all MG duels

3. maxims are not durable

4. maxims can be deathlooped frontally by 3x lmg grenadiers

5. its easier to deathloop a maxim due to large target sizes for soviet crewmen

all of this tested in cheatmods... conclusion? ur argument is bullshit

If you reduce the damage by a small amount it will still onehit slightly lighter vehicles like: uc m3a1 m3 m5 m15 or m20.

good point... 400 dmg with heavy engine crit sounds good then...

all mgs are meant to stop infantry blobs... its like a rock-paper-scissors game, you dont put an mg against other and pretend to win the duel... also maxims are extremely durable.
If your mg got deathlooped it means it got either flanked or assaulted, it only bothers you because you deathloop a 6 man mg, instead of the mg42 wich has only 4 man.
0HKs are tough but as someone said earlier, its a mistake to drive a light into a minefield...



now thats clearly whining...

Almost all axis infantry can throw their grenade frontaly before the maxim can supress them. There is only paper and siccor with the maxim, the maxim being the paper.
The smaller arc low suppression allow it to be flanked more easely then most other mgs.

Because all other mg,s except soviet ones can teleport on retreat soviet mgs are way more easely wiped. Needing to pick it up every time the model carrying it is killed.... Severly limiting their supposed extreme durabilty. Mg42/43 vickers .50 cals mostly get away in situations maxims do not.

2x 80 hp does not in anyway make up for so much negatives.

And putting any squad on a demo is also a mistake..... same with driving over a teller mine.....

Nobody is whyning but some people are being hypocritical in defending ohk tellers and defending the demo nerf.

good point... 400 dmg with heavy engine crit sounds good then...

It has the usual light engine damage crit if it doesn't get changed i think if the high damage is a problem they should lower it significant to allow other light vehicles do the same stuff as a stuart/t70 or aec while changing the performance against mediums / allowing follow ups by changing the crit type i think a straight up nerf isn't needed as its not cheap with 50 munitions and can be swept usually most players use only one light vehicle and then it should be able to sweep at that spot for mines.

It wasn't ok that 90 munis Demos could one click-wipe a 240-380 MP unit but it is still ok that a 50 munis Mine can on shot (even without clicking on it) a 270 MP + 70 Fuel unit.
Relics and Wehrmacht players logic

To OP, I tried many times to address this but all I got was smartass answers from the Wehrmacht players, without arguments. Get minesweepers they said because they can be everywhere anytime right?
Some would say that this can be an argument for protecting you from Demos, right? Nooooo said the Wehrmacht players.

Don't get me wrong, I like the tellers but I also did like the demos but they disappeared.
That's balance, right?

The difference is that you have 3-4 infantry units so you can´t possibly sweep for all of them. Meanwhile you only have one vehicle in early to mid game so you can sweep for it.

That being said I somewhat agree with you. All the powerful/borderline OP stuff that could OHK units like Demos, infiltration units etc got changed but Tellers didnt, so they aren´t really fair in the current balance.

How about slightly reducing damage and having it immobilise light vehicles? (but not heavier vehicles)

That will reduce the effectiveness of (very) agressively placed tellers, while almost certainly securing a kill with defensively placed tellers

How about slightly reducing damage and having it immobilise light vehicles? (but not heavier vehicles)

That will reduce the effectiveness of (very) agressively placed tellers, while almost certainly securing a kill with defensively placed tellers

This would make Tellers essentially Reigel mines.

It could be a possibility to switch functionality of reigels and tellers. Reigels, being doctrinal, could be the big bad OHK, and tellers could be a reliable disabler.

I dunno though. There's already a lot of snares in this game.

How about slightly reducing damage and having it immobilise light vehicles? (but not heavier vehicles)

That will reduce the effectiveness of (very) agressively placed tellers, while almost certainly securing a kill with defensively placed tellers

Immobilise would be to strong even if it only effects light vehicles. It wouldn't really be used if the mine would only be useful against light vehicles either as you have to reduce the damage which again weakens the performance against all targets.

Another way would be some timed crit like a few second stun or timed immobilisation but that would weaken offensive mines which are easier to sweep anyway.

This would make Tellers essentially Reigel mines.

It could be a possibility to switch functionality of reigels and tellers. Reigels, being doctrinal, could be the big bad OHK, and tellers could be a reliable disabler.

I dunno though. There's already a lot of snares in this game.

Tellers would still light engine damage medium and heavy tanks, but immobilise light vehicles. Your suggestion sounds interesting too, altough it would make Ostheer much stronger in the late game.

Immobilise would be to strong even if it only effects light vehicles. It wouldn't really be used if the mine would only be useful against light vehicles either as you have to reduce the damage which again weakens the performance against all targets.

Another way would be some timed crit like a few second stun or timed immobilisation but that would weaken offensive mines which are easier to sweep anyway.

It would still be weaker than a OHK and require the Ostheer player to spend another 25 munition on a faust or risk rushing a scout car / pak.

It would be an indirect buff to scout cars, mobile defense and light vehicles with more hp tho.

Damage against heavier tanks would only be slightly lower like 40-80hp less

It would still be weaker than a OHK and require the Ostheer player to spend another 25 munition on a faust or risk rushing a scout car / pak.

It would be an indirect buff to scout cars, mobile defense and light vehicles with more hp tho.

Damage against heavier tanks would only be slightly lower like 40-80hp less

As stated before i think 320 damage for a Tellermine would just lower the use of all allied halftracks, the m20, UC and greyhound as they have 320 or less hp so its just a buff for t70 stuart or aec which i don't really understand i would rather prefer the damage lowered even more and instead changing the critical to keep the tellermine useful otherwise i would rather build riegelmines.

It wasn't ok that 90 munis Demos could one click-wipe a 240-380 MP unit but it is still ok that a 50 munis Mine can on shot (even without clicking on it) a 270 MP + 70 Fuel unit.
Relics and Wehrmacht players logic

To OP, I tried many times to address this but all I got was smartass answers from the Wehrmacht players, without arguments. Get minesweepers they said because they can be everywhere anytime right?
Some would say that this can be an argument for protecting you from Demos, right? Nooooo said the Wehrmacht players.

Don't get me wrong, I like the tellers but I also did like the demos but they disappeared.
That's balance, right?

this, I'm so done arguing. Axis can get everything for free, meanwhile allies have to pay for everything and everything is dumbed down.

Snares, weapon upgrades, support weapons, tanks, etc.

Also, everyone is forgetting about the S-mines, 15 munis to pretty much have a high chance to wipe a squad, meanwhile normal mines only kill 2 models at best.