since this post complaints about some synergy of axis tanks, also pointing out that the smoke is doctrinal... then in order to "balance" things out then also remove the self spotting ability of SU85 or make it doctrinal. Im saying that many changes should be made, because 2 abilitys of axis are considered ""Overpowered"" doesnt make its winrate skyrise neither.
OP isnt posting a fair point I must address...
Panzer Tactician too strong, prove me wrong.
25 Sep 2018, 22:56 PM
#61
Posts: 2358
25 Sep 2018, 23:10 PM
#62
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
The reverse Blitz makes no sense, and I don't get why it hasn't been removed.
The smoke is by no means "over the top" though. Smoke isn't an invincibility shield. And it affects the user's sight as well. It's a balanced ability.
Let it be know I also think it's too strong on the one unit I use it often, the USF Scott, the strength of Panzer Tactician is the fact it's ability on everything. Solid doctrinal skill.
25 Sep 2018, 23:55 PM
#63
Posts: 378
Nobody is saying that Panzer Tactician should get a nerf, just some balancing in order to force players to put micro in place when using this ability, just like any other doctrinal ability in the game.
You don't just press a button with near no ammo spent to magically disappear in an engagement, it's just like back when people said that target weak point was fine, press one button freeze tanks...
It didn't take them that much time to nerf button on guards right?
I mean seriously.
How is this balanced in anyway?
Make the only reason to build a SU85 doctrinal? Care to post your playercard?
You don't just press a button with near no ammo spent to magically disappear in an engagement, it's just like back when people said that target weak point was fine, press one button freeze tanks...
It didn't take them that much time to nerf button on guards right?
I mean seriously.
since this post complaints about some synergy of axis tanks, also pointing out that the smoke is doctrinal... then in order to "balance" things out then also remove the self spotting ability of SU85 or make it doctrinal. Im saying that many changes should be made, because 2 abilitys of axis are considered ""Overpowered"" doesnt make its winrate skyrise neither.
OP isnt posting a fair point I must address...
How is this balanced in anyway?
Make the only reason to build a SU85 doctrinal? Care to post your playercard?
T34 85 needs to have slightly less AI. It's shells are basically on par with Sherman HE yet it does everything.
26 Sep 2018, 00:11 AM
#64
Posts: 5279
since this post complaints about some synergy of axis tanks, also pointing out that the smoke is doctrinal... then in order to "balance" things out then also remove the self spotting ability of SU85 or make it doctrinal. Im saying that many changes should be made, because 2 abilitys of axis are considered ""Overpowered"" doesnt make its winrate skyrise neither.
OP isnt posting a fair point I must address...
SU85 SHOULD lose self sight, no unit should have it. Let alone the new, actually not a joke su85 that counters armour.
Panzer tac has been complained about long as 2 man snipers, seems having a way to escape situations you rightfully don't desire to is a bad design decision..
#stalinwept
26 Sep 2018, 01:29 AM
#65
Posts: 2358
Nobody is saying that Panzer Tactician should get a nerf, just some balancing in order to force players to put micro in place when using this ability, just like any other doctrinal ability in the game.
Asking to remove blitz is a nerf AFAIK...
Asking to raise the muni cost is a nerf...
Asking to delay it is a nerf...
Do i need to continue?
It didn't take them that much time to nerf button on guards right?
I mean seriously.
we are talking about panzer tactician, dont go offtopic...
How is this balanced in anyway?
Make the only reason to build a SU85 doctrinal? Care to post your playercard?
If you cant win the argue then you attack the messenger?
26 Sep 2018, 03:09 AM
#66
Posts: 2358
In order to finish my statement, the post is called "Panzer Tactician too strong, prove me wrong." so. This is a command ability only focused on panzers and vehicles. Its a good one, I get it, but its a command ability that defines a playstyle, and what i mean is: IT DEFINES THAT THE PLAYER IS FOCUSING ON TANKS...
If so, then get proper counters: snares, mines, attack ground (yea it cost a little of microing, i know, but its worth it), deny fuel, focus on AT...
If you do it i can guarantee you will have an edge in the game.
Therefore, i prove you wrong because, if only an commander ability wreks your game, then your way of thinking or planing ahead game is bad, and as i stated earlier, wrong.
If so, then get proper counters: snares, mines, attack ground (yea it cost a little of microing, i know, but its worth it), deny fuel, focus on AT...
If you do it i can guarantee you will have an edge in the game.
Therefore, i prove you wrong because, if only an commander ability wreks your game, then your way of thinking or planing ahead game is bad, and as i stated earlier, wrong.
26 Sep 2018, 04:35 AM
#67
Posts: 310
1. No one dives in with a 20% vehicle.
2. Every side has its unique features. It is like I would suggest to give axis tank crews the same repair ability like USF tanks.
Axis have very expensive tanks and are most outnumbered in tank battles. Allies dive in with a couple of tanks, the ones who are badly damaged drive back and are fast repaired by their own crew, while axis player, who already paid more for the tank, has to build 1-2 addional pios (to have at least 3) to repair at the same level. But axis have still "mass concentration of support weapons and infantry", yeah yeah.
And now you want to take away that smoke solution, which is only in some commanders..
1. Read the comment again. The hp of the vehicle is REDUCED to ~20% hp due to battle, the vehicle dives in with full hp and gets damage by AT sources. But then it drives back again.
2. They got stronger armor. It's very irritating when multiple shots bounce on German tanks. Especially when i see a Pershing being unable to penetrate a Panther.
Jagdpanzer IV costs 135 fuel, while Jackson costs 140. Yeah ok, they got a -/+5 fuel, but still. And Axis has a 185 fuel tank (Panther) that is able to compete with a 230 fuel tank (Pershing) at absolute ease. Not to mention IS-2.
We don't want to take away the smoke solution, we want to change it. Maybe put a small delay on it?
And for the mass concentrations that i said, explain to me how 1 Wehr player manages to have a lot of MGs, 3-4 tanks, x4 pios, 4 squads of infantry and AT guns all together. Unless i'm blind, something's going on.
"L is for L Shaped Ambush"
-Orion Training Group
-Orion Training Group
26 Sep 2018, 08:08 AM
#68
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
2. They got stronger armor. It's very irritating when multiple shots bounce on German tanks. Especially when i see a Pershing being unable to penetrate a Panther.
The Pershing's standard round wasn't that good and it should have trouble penetrating the Panther frontally (not that it really does in the game). Only special ammunition could reliably penetrate, but that ammo was either scarce or wasn't distributed until the end of the war. In the game it's mainly an AI tank anyway.
26 Sep 2018, 08:10 AM
#69
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
...
Especially when i see a Pershing being unable to penetrate a Panther.
Jagdpanzer IV costs 135 fuel, while Jackson costs 140. Yeah ok, they got a -/+5 fuel, but still. And Axis has a 185 fuel tank (Panther) that is able to compete with a 230 fuel tank (Pershing) at absolute ease. Not to mention IS-2.
...
A Pershing firing on Panther at max range has around 85% to penetrate and 100% with the AP shot.
A Panther firing at Pershing has 73%.
Panther is not tank, it is TD and it is especially design to counter Super heavies like IS-2 and Pershing that may cost more fuel but have tech cost. And I would say that it can counter them with absolute ease.
26 Sep 2018, 10:02 AM
#70
Posts: 310
A Pershing firing on Panther at max range has around 85% to penetrate and 100% with the AP shot.
A Panther firing at Pershing has 73%.
Panther is not tank, it is TD and it is especially design to counter Super heavies like IS-2 and Pershing that may cost more fuel but have tech cost. And I would say that it can counter them with absolute ease.
It's strange because Panther is mentioned as a medium tank
"L is for L Shaped Ambush"
-Orion Training Group
-Orion Training Group
26 Sep 2018, 10:35 AM
#71
Posts: 1660
It's strange because Panther is mentioned as a medium tank
Where ?
26 Sep 2018, 11:16 AM
#72
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
It's strange because Panther is mentioned as a medium tank
In game is more a hybrid. It a medium tank with a gun of TD.
26 Sep 2018, 12:41 PM
#73
Posts: 5279
In order to finish my statement, the post is called "Panzer Tactician too strong, prove me wrong." so. This is a command ability only focused on panzers and vehicles. Its a good one, I get it, but its a command ability that defines a playstyle, and what i mean is: IT DEFINES THAT THE PLAYER IS FOCUSING ON TANKS...
If so, then get proper counters: snares, mines, attack ground (yea it cost a little of microing, i know, but its worth it), deny fuel, focus on AT...
If you do it i can guarantee you will have an edge in the game.
Therefore, i prove you wrong because, if only an commander ability wreks your game, then your way of thinking or planing ahead game is bad, and as i stated earlier, wrong.
. Thing it, it also works on lights. Dove for that pwerfer? Smoked so you have to dive further. Flame halftrack vulnerable? Nooooooope. And you say "just add more micro" like it's nothing. No abikity in game forces so much extra for so little. Ptac also breaks button, which is more expensive to start but also requires and upgrade!
Maybe Ptac should be an upgrade instead of a global?
#stalinwept
26 Sep 2018, 12:47 PM
#74
Posts: 223
Where ?
It is a medium tank. Because of its underwhelming anti infantry qualities, players complained years ago until users like Katitof claimed, that the Panther must be a tank destroyer and not a tank.
This is repeated until today.
26 Sep 2018, 13:06 PM
#75
Posts: 1660
It is a medium tank. Because of its underwhelming anti infantry qualities, players complained years ago until users like Katitof claimed, that the Panther must be a tank destroyer and not a tank.
This is repeated until today.
It is because i'm right is not an argument tho. By what standards it is a medium tank.
26 Sep 2018, 13:19 PM
#76
Posts: 5279
Panther has always been a pseudo TD. It's cannon has a tank destroyer profile. The only reason it has any capacity to fight infantry is because of its 3 mgs. Where lacks a proper 60 range TD and the panther was intended to fill that role, the role of TD.
#stalinwept
26 Sep 2018, 14:12 PM
#77
Posts: 378
distrofio I'm not attacking you, I'm judging your capability as a player based on your nonsense, you're the one who deviates to SU85 not me, so show a playercard lets see if you actually have the credencials to call bullshit where there is none.
Increase the cost is a nerf how? Was it a nerf for the SU76 to make the arty barrage cost ammunition (for no good reason)?
Put a delay on the Panzer Tactician, the lack of micro and commitment is the problem, not the smoke screen.
It's not even a joke, when I use elite doc I just dive into soviet tanks thinking I can safely pullback if it doesn't go my way.
But the axis defense force (the same people as always) will tell you that it shouldn't be nerfed because...it's shouldn't lol let ostheer overperform!
Increase the cost is a nerf how? Was it a nerf for the SU76 to make the arty barrage cost ammunition (for no good reason)?
Put a delay on the Panzer Tactician, the lack of micro and commitment is the problem, not the smoke screen.
It's not even a joke, when I use elite doc I just dive into soviet tanks thinking I can safely pullback if it doesn't go my way.
But the axis defense force (the same people as always) will tell you that it shouldn't be nerfed because...it's shouldn't lol let ostheer overperform!
T34 85 needs to have slightly less AI. It's shells are basically on par with Sherman HE yet it does everything.
26 Sep 2018, 16:13 PM
#78
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Was it a nerf for the SU76 to make the arty barrage cost ammunition (for no good reason)?
Going off-topic here, but a munitions cost for the barrage ability was absolutely needed in team games (3v3 and mostly 4v4) where Su-76s could be spammed en masse (talking 4-7 vehicles) and take out literally anything they encountered. They were way too cost effective with free artillery barrages added to their huge AT pen/dps.
26 Sep 2018, 16:16 PM
#79
Posts: 3260
More specifically, they changed out the SU-76/M's old barrage for a clone of the ZiS gun's barrage. The ZiS gun one costs munitions but is more powerful.
26 Sep 2018, 18:00 PM
#80
Posts: 2358
distrofio I'm not attacking you...
Oh really? are you?
...I'm judging your capability as a player based on your nonsense...so show a playercard lets see if you actually have the credencials to call bullshit where there is none.
Wow, thats not personal at all...
Also im going to point out that you started calling BS and you cant stand the facts, the su85 was an EXAMPLE (in your simple mind words for you to understand properly) to prupose a grown up idea.
Increase the cost is a nerf how? Was it a nerf for the SU76 to make the arty barrage cost ammunition (for no good reason)?
i cant teach you math here in the forums kid... you are on your own. Also offtopic again.
It's not even a joke, when I use elite doc I just dive into soviet tanks thinking I can safely pullback if it doesn't go my way.
It seems you play like a clown with tanks... dont worry, we dont.
But the axis defense force (the same people as always) will tell you that it shouldn't be nerfed because...it's shouldn't lol let ostheer overperform!
and at the end of all the whine...
I guess you are a solid 5 yo kid complaining...
I am not going to waste words with some dumb kid spamming on the forums, cheers!
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