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Flame Halftrack

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Katitof
23 Sep 2018, 14:59 PM
#101
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2018, 13:57 PMWiderstreit



For playing Osttruppen, it is a usless tech. That's why it also gets unlocked with T2 since last patch.


So or so there were scenarios that happend. And the Question isn't about that, only changin ability a. with a less OP ability, with option b. getting it back, when needed.


Have you ever played osttruppen in your life?
The moment opponent gets HMG, you are either forced to camp your fuel, praying to get flame 251 and hope he won't have anything to hardcounter it by that time or to build a mortar/sniper, which will be needed, because osttruppen alone are good only for map presence in first minutes - they scale well, but you aren't going to win anything without anything capable of doing damage.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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ZombiFrancis
23 Sep 2018, 15:35 PM
#102
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Posts: 2742

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2018, 14:59 PMKatitof


Have you ever played osttruppen in your life?
The moment opponent gets HMG, you are either forced to camp your fuel, praying to get flame 251 and hope he won't have anything to hardcounter it by that time or to build a mortar/sniper, which will be needed, because osttruppen alone are good only for map presence in first minutes - they scale well, but you aren't going to win anything without anything capable of doing damage.


So, you're saying in this situation Ostheer may be forced to camp its fuel and decide whether to:

Field upgraded T2 unit.

Field T1 units for support.

I'm not sure how this scenario is unique to using Ostruppen.
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Elaindil
23 Sep 2018, 15:37 PM
#103
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Posts: 97

I really don't get these "what ifs". It's pretty straightforward there's LV > you build a counter to it and if you don't then you are likely to lose. Some people talk about some scenarios that can occur like in 1% games makes me wonder if they even play the game.

And this topic is about Flame halftrack not clown cars and UC. Talking about them is whataboutism and they are pretty balanced anyway.
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Katitof
23 Sep 2018, 15:39 PM
#104
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

He used osttruppen as an excuse to give grens at nade instead of faust, despite the fact that you can't have grens without faust.

He also pretends T1 is useless for osttruppen opening, despite it having units that are somewhat mandatory for osttruppen openings to work in the first place.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Widerstreit
23 Sep 2018, 16:33 PM
#105
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Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2018, 15:39 PMKatitof
He used osttruppen as an excuse to give grens at nade instead of faust, despite the fact that you can't have grens without faust.

He also pretends T1 is useless for osttruppen opening, despite it having units that are somewhat mandatory for osttruppen openings to work in the first place.



Why you can't have Grens without Faust?


T1 is useless for Osttruppen. Only if you spam noob Maxims. Osttruppen also perform better versus Penals in my opinion. ^^
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thedarkarmadillo
23 Sep 2018, 17:13 PM
#106
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Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2018, 13:57 PMWiderstreit



For playing Osttruppen, it is a usless tech. That's why it also gets unlocked with T2 since last patch.


So or so there were scenarios that happend. And the Question isn't about that, only changin ability a. with a less OP ability, with option b. getting it back, when needed.

10 fuel and 80mp. That's what you are skipping. It's on YOU if you skip it. Know what the comparable cost is? 25 fuel and 125mp for the Soviet it's a fucking bargain AND you get support units from it. Quit bitching about not having tools you chose to forgo
#stalinwept
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Katitof
23 Sep 2018, 17:31 PM
#107
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2018, 16:33 PMWiderstreit

Why you can't have Grens without Faust?

The fact that you asked this question tells me you started playing CoH2 probably 2 hours ago...
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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jagd wölfe
23 Sep 2018, 17:33 PM
#108
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Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2018, 17:31 PMKatitof

The fact that you asked this question tells me you started playing CoH2 probably 2 hours ago...

If tier 1 is destroyed faust ability is disabled
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jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2021, 07:47 AMKatitof

They certainly hide from me.
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Katitof
23 Sep 2018, 17:34 PM
#109
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2018, 17:33 PMjagd wölfe

If tier 1 is destroyed faust ability is disabled


And again, how often t1 is destroyed in early game?
Do you have some replays if its such an issue that someone thinks its actually not plain stupid to use it as an argument?
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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jagd wölfe
23 Sep 2018, 17:40 PM
#110
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2018, 17:34 PMKatitof


And again, how often t1 is destroyed in early game?
Do you have some replays if its such an issue that someone thinks its actually not plain stupid to use it as an argument?


You: "You can NOT have grens and NOT have faust"

Accept this is factually wrong and get over it
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jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2021, 07:47 AMKatitof

They certainly hide from me.
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Katitof
23 Sep 2018, 17:43 PM
#111
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2018, 17:40 PMjagd wölfe


You: "You can NOT have grens and NOT have faust"

Accept this is factually wrong and get over it

The very moment you and the other genius will accept the fact that losing any tier structure at any stage of the game, unless its forward okw truck is less then rare.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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jagd wölfe
23 Sep 2018, 17:46 PM
#112
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2018, 17:43 PMKatitof

The very moment you and the other genius will accept the fact that losing any tier structure at any stage of the game, unless its forward okw truck is less then rare.

You are deflecting from the fact that what you said is wrong. Period.

Learn the difference between unlikely and impossible, and who the hell even mentioned early game ?
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jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2021, 07:47 AMKatitof

They certainly hide from me.
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Lago
23 Sep 2018, 17:50 PM
#113
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Jagdwolfe is correct in that a scenario exists where it is possible to have a Grenadier squad that's locked out of its panzerfaust.

Katitof is correct in that this is so improbable that it's irrelevant to game balance.
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Widerstreit
23 Sep 2018, 18:15 PM
#114
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2018, 17:50 PMLago
...



The funny thing was, I did write about the situation, that in my opinion Grens Faust-ability arrives too early. And that I would prefer if ostheer Grenadiers get a AT-rifle-grenade like Panzerfüsseliere and if T3 is unlocked they get the Faust.
And first I wrote, that it would be better if OKW-Sturmpios get a AT-Grenade for prevent clown-car trolling. Less range than Soviet nade, but Maybe with some sec. freeze for the tank-crew e.g.



I have no idea Katitof is writing about, I even dont know what he is trying to say. xD
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Lago
23 Sep 2018, 19:08 PM
#115
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

I don't see the need for that. A second snare on the same unit is just clutter.
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ZombiFrancis
23 Sep 2018, 19:44 PM
#116
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2018, 18:15 PMWiderstreit

I have no idea Katitof is writing about, I even dont know what he is trying to say. xD


He will argue all sides of an issue ad nauseum so as to maximize post count and forum street creds.

In this case he is demanding acknowledgement of a technicality while simultaneously demanding you ignore that he missed acknowledging a technicality.

So, par for the course for Special K.
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Widerstreit
23 Sep 2018, 20:07 PM
#117
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Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2018, 19:44 PMZombiFrancis

...


Thanks for the explanation. :D


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Esxile
24 Sep 2018, 08:03 AM
#118
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2018, 17:46 PMjagd wölfe

You are deflecting from the fact that what you said is wrong. Period.

Learn the difference between unlikely and impossible, and who the hell even mentioned early game ?


Depending how your read his sentence, he isn't wrong at all. To have Gren, you need T1 which also unlock faust.
Now you can also lose your faust ability while still having Grens.

As the topic is about the Flame Halftrack, is it possible to lose your T1 before 4 minutes marks?
The only way to do so is with Soviet T1 start clowncar/Penal rush inside the Ostheer base and throw satchel at it.
How many satchel does it requires to destroy it and has the Soviet enough munition to do it. Last but not least, the squad has to survive inside enemy base until its destruction...
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Kirrik
24 Sep 2018, 11:23 AM
#119
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573

If you think grillmaster 251 is fine watch game 2 and 4
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/313933626
That thing should've never had access to Panzer tactician, RE upgraded with flamethower lose ability to use smoke nades, yet far more devastating 251 keeps smoke after upgrading to flamer?
Not even going to point out that damage is from this thing is so high even AT squad that supposed to counter it get roasted
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Sander93
24 Sep 2018, 11:37 AM
#120
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Sep 2018, 11:23 AMKirrik
If you think grillmaster 251 is fine watch game 2 and 4
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/313933626
That thing should've never had access to Panzer tactician, RE upgraded with flamethower lose ability to use smoke nades, yet far more devastating 251 keeps smoke after upgrading to flamer?


That's what I said give pages ago. Panzer Tactician smoke is the main offender.


jump backJump back to quoted post24 Sep 2018, 11:23 AMKirrik
Not even going to point out that damage is from this thing is so high even AT squad that supposed to counter it get roasted


I'd hardly call an infantry light AT squad a counter to an anti-infantry vehicle. AT guns with snares/mines do well in deterring the 251 and honestly I think most of its effectiveness comes from the stubbornness of Soviet players of calling in softcounter PTRS infantry instead of ATGs. Every German player knows the T-70 is coming and has to prepare counters for it (laying tellers, building pre-emptive PaK/Panzershrecks or even choosing an entire doctrine), but Soviet players somehow seem to refuse to adjust their build orders to face the inevitable flame 251. And they get punished for it.

I think the flame damage itself could be toned down (and duration damage increased) a bit so it isn't as wipey on retreat while remaining as effective against regular targets. But I also think the T-70 wipe-on-retreat potential should be toned down similarly.
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